I was thinking is it possible for the Czardom of Russia to annex more of Silesia(basically all of the Polish Silesia) including Austrian Silesia not just Siewierz and this includes Opole, Milicz and Cieszyn and Poznan and Galicia as well...
WI:Russia annexes Polish Silesia, Galicia and Posen
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yourworstnightmare
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Sounds like Russia has to completely smash the Prussians and the Austrians for this.
MSZ
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Different Congress of Vienna. OTL Prussia offered for Posen to remain with Russian Poland in return for being allowed to annex more of Saxony, and Austria was willing to give up Galicia to Russia in return for more parts of northern Italy. The deal wasn't allowed by Britain which feared a stronger Russia. If the British are smarter and realize Poland is more of a burden to Russia than benefit, you could have them allow the exchange to happen.
From there, annexing more of Silesia would only require Russia to win a war against either Prussia or Austria, possible during 1848 or in a Russian intervention during the Prusso-Austrian War.
As for the results - more Poles mean stronger uprisings and stronger Polish national sentiment. Possibly a succesful 1830 uprising, as well as possibly more international support for the Polish couse internationally, as the Austrians could see them as a way to harm Russia and Prussia.
From there, annexing more of Silesia would only require Russia to win a war against either Prussia or Austria, possible during 1848 or in a Russian intervention during the Prusso-Austrian War.
As for the results - more Poles mean stronger uprisings and stronger Polish national sentiment. Possibly a succesful 1830 uprising, as well as possibly more international support for the Polish couse internationally, as the Austrians could see them as a way to harm Russia and Prussia.
I think the Russians can annex more of Silesia in the French-Prussian war where in the French are allied with Russians, I think a Congress Poland having all of Polish Silesia and Posen will make Congress Poland an industrial backbone of Russia and Autonomous but dependent on Russia, I think it could act more like Finland.
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Provided it can be kept at all, I definitely think a lot more accommodation would be required from Russia. Which might provide it, depending on who's asking and who's in charge of Russia at the time. Or it might not, and then things get ugly.
Might we see Austria and Prussia/Germany providing funding and support to Polish groups as a way of weakening them? Certainly seems like a good way ot create a more organized polish nationalist movement.
also, would this prevent the Germanisation of parts of western Poland?
also, would this prevent the Germanisation of parts of western Poland?
MSZ
Banned
IMHO Austria would support such a Poland for the purpose of weakening Russia once the Holy Alliance breaks up and Metternich is gone. Until then, it would most likely see "Polish independence struggle" as a threat to its own existence, just as it perceived Belgium as such.
As for Prussia - there is still the problem with Pomeralia. German settler colonization might be stronger in that particular area of Germany, weaker in Posen since it wouldn't be part of Germany.
wolf_brother
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MSZ had it right. You're going to need a different Vienna. Perhaps one following a Napoleon that isn't defeated by the British & Prussians at Waterloo, but instead later by the advancing Russians.
MSZ
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Plausibly. Larger Poland from the Vienna Congress ups the chances of it beating Russia in either 1830 or 1846. Thus during the spring of nations Poland sides with Austria against Prussia to get back Pomeralia, leading to the Olmutz Treaty being more severe for Prussia, preventing it from expanding in the future. German Union survives, as do the individual German states.
What "More parts of northern Italy" is there except at the expense of the Pope or the Savoia, neither of which is likely to be desirable to even the Habsburgs themselves. They have Lombardy and Venetia ( Republic of Venice/Mantua). Habsburgs sit on the thrones of Modena, Tuscany and even Parma (Marie - Louise). What more could they possibly have in mind?
wolf_brother
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I'm not exactly sure how a larger Poland guarantees a better chance of success rebelling against the Russians. After all IOTL both congressional Poland and former Lithuania rebelled against Moscow, and the Poles in Posen and Cracow against Berlin and Vienna, respectively, but that didn't succeed.
Originally posted by wolf_brother
Instead of each piece of Poland fighting against a different power, you would have united forces of all Poland fighting only single power (Russia). Polish chances go somewhat higher, IMO. Not to mention the fact that united Poland might get some support from other powers hostile to Russia. IOTL Russia, Prussia and Austria had common enemy - Polish independence movement. Every Polsish uprising had in fact 3 enemies. ITTL however Austra (e.g.) has no Polish lands at all and might be persuaded to help the Poles (offering a Habsburg duke as a king of Poland, perhaps?)
Another POD might be in 1813 after the destruction of the Grand Armee. There was a large faction in the Russian court and army advocating that the Czar should just annex the rest of Polen and Eastern Prussia as a buffer and be done with the war. You might need a earlier POD to change the character of Alexander though. Or kill him in 1813 ofcourse.
wolf_brother
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Again, there's no guarantee of success just because the Poles are united. The Finns were fully under Moscow's thumb since 1809 and yet they never broke away until the Romanov regime fell apart in the February Revolution.