So, your challenge is to divide up Anatolia. Not so much a Balkanization, but just a minor break-up. At the bare minimum, it must be controlled by two states, but additional nations are more than welcome. Also, any PoD is acceptable, but I personally would prefer one after 1850 (just to challenge you). Many a bonus point to someone who can exclude a Turkish-run nation from Anatolia with a late PoD. Any post-1900 scenarios are welcome here, because I'm not going to have another thread posted in the other forum. How can it be done?
AHC: Break up Anatolia
- Thread starter Shtudmuffin
- Start date
Greek parts of Anatolia become Greek after a Greco-Turkish war. Whallah, two states in Anatolia.
Ok, maybe Post-1900 shouldn't count.
Snake Featherston
Banned
The easiest ways to do this involve PODs from pre-1900 that prevent the rise of any Ottoman-style pan-Middle Eastern Balkans-based successor to the ERE. Perhaps the Timurids go all the way with the Ottomans early on, and this leads to Anatolia preserving some of its earlier tendencies to division instead of unity. If a Turkic Empire does not unite Anatolia, it's rather unlikely that some variant of a Greek Empire is suddenly going to do it, however.
Well Anatolia was'nt always united, indeed it's only really been unified since the Ottoman Empire arose, so maybe have the PoD during the Beylik period and then have it continue on with no one able to become dominant and Anatolia thus split into 3-5 states.
Without a PoD before the 1300's their no way to not have a Turkish run state without someone committing mass genocide though.
Without a PoD before the 1300's their no way to not have a Turkish run state without someone committing mass genocide though.
How about Napoleon III messes up, more than normal and a different, if any, Crimean War?
The Great Powers would NEVER allow Russia to carve up Anatolia, and that's even with Russia somehow managing to win, which would be difficult since it was using inferior weapons and military techniques; it was the the loss of the Crimean War that convinced them to modernize militarily.
Dreadnought
Banned
This is earlier than 1850, but what if the Knights of St. John won the siege of Rhodes in 1522?
In addition to holding the island of Rhodes, the Knights of St. John also held a stronghold on the peninsula of Halicarnassus (the city of Bodrum in specific) in 1522.
This stronghold never fell to the Ottoman's by military force, but had to be vacated after the Fall of Rhodes due the city being too vunerable.
The Challenge, would be to make the Ottoman's lose interest in taking Rhodes (maybe the Knights of St. John could become a Tributary state to the Ottoman Sultan and focus their efforts elsewhere)
In addition to holding the island of Rhodes, the Knights of St. John also held a stronghold on the peninsula of Halicarnassus (the city of Bodrum in specific) in 1522.
This stronghold never fell to the Ottoman's by military force, but had to be vacated after the Fall of Rhodes due the city being too vunerable.
The Challenge, would be to make the Ottoman's lose interest in taking Rhodes (maybe the Knights of St. John could become a Tributary state to the Ottoman Sultan and focus their efforts elsewhere)
Divide Anatolia with a PoD after 1850, but not after 1900?
---> IMPOSIBLE!
The only chance would be the Russians win the Crimean War, so they would lauch a couple of great offensives against OE in the next 45 years. Nevertheless, military victories do not change the map that radically on their own in this period. If everything goes great for the Russians, the best scenario is that they build an a la San Stephan client Bulgaria, a large client Serbia, make some gains in Armenia and aquiring Constantinople with a foothold on the Asian side of Bosporus, but that differs from a division of Anatolia, as you can see on the map. It is too early for a Greek expansion in Asia Minor, and the Kurds are in no position to ask for independence.
If we use a Pod after 1900, though, things are a lot different, especially with the Greek and the Kurdish factors. Or, a Pod way before 1850; most likely between 11th and 14th c.
---> IMPOSIBLE!
The only chance would be the Russians win the Crimean War, so they would lauch a couple of great offensives against OE in the next 45 years. Nevertheless, military victories do not change the map that radically on their own in this period. If everything goes great for the Russians, the best scenario is that they build an a la San Stephan client Bulgaria, a large client Serbia, make some gains in Armenia and aquiring Constantinople with a foothold on the Asian side of Bosporus, but that differs from a division of Anatolia, as you can see on the map. It is too early for a Greek expansion in Asia Minor, and the Kurds are in no position to ask for independence.
If we use a Pod after 1900, though, things are a lot different, especially with the Greek and the Kurdish factors. Or, a Pod way before 1850; most likely between 11th and 14th c.
A slightly more dynamic Ottoman sultan manages to hold onto power after WW1 in part of the country, perhaps propped up by the Allies, but republican reformers establish a rival government that also controls significant territories. Not a stable situation in the long-term, but it could perhaps last for a decade or so.
Alternatively, Turkey joins the Axis during WW2 and gets partitioned by the victorious Allies afterwards: 'West Turkey' v 'Turkish People's Republic'...
Alternatively, Turkey joins the Axis during WW2 and gets partitioned by the victorious Allies afterwards: 'West Turkey' v 'Turkish People's Republic'...
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Byzzies hold on in Western Anatolia somehow (perhaps no Ottomans, and some weaker Turkish tribe unite eastern Anatolia).
However after 1850, have Russia take Constantinople at some point. That'd accomplish it, need Russia wank though, since Britain and France would not approve.
However after 1850, have Russia take Constantinople at some point. That'd accomplish it, need Russia wank though, since Britain and France would not approve.
A dynastic marriage between a Byzantine princess and Russian tsar or tsarovitch could provide legal justification for that union with which the British (at least) would find it difficult to argue.
I'm betting that butterflies will assure that the world will be too different from OTL for this to be possible.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Oh, you people saw this as one scenario. I actually proposed two unrelated scenarios. One where the Byzzies hold on to Western Anatolia, and another for a post 1850 scenario (as the OP asked for) where Russia take Constantinople.
Figure I might as well post it;
This is from a Map series I did based on some ideas I had on Asia and Europe swapping places so to speak in terms of development and colonization;
The largest state is a multiethnic state that came about after the Union of a large Turkic state in Central Anatolia and the remnants of another state along the Central and North West coast.
The Cilicia-Cyprus state and the Lycio-Cretan state are post-Colonial states, gaining Independence from South China and Hindustan (North West Subcontinent) respectively.
The Armenian state (which is'nt Armenia) came about naturally.
This is from a Map series I did based on some ideas I had on Asia and Europe swapping places so to speak in terms of development and colonization;
The largest state is a multiethnic state that came about after the Union of a large Turkic state in Central Anatolia and the remnants of another state along the Central and North West coast.
The Cilicia-Cyprus state and the Lycio-Cretan state are post-Colonial states, gaining Independence from South China and Hindustan (North West Subcontinent) respectively.
The Armenian state (which is'nt Armenia) came about naturally.