ATL "cool bad guys" in lieu of Nazis?

[Wolf Tengu]

What about the British?

I'm fairly some people already think of us as evil, and we kinda had the size to be one of those Empire things.

[RamscoopRaider]

Originally Posted by Wolf Tengu

What about the British?

I'm fairly some people already think of us as evil, and we kinda had the size to be one of those Empire things.

That would require Britain to lose a major war (winners decide morality)

[Marc Pasquin]

il duce was pretty funny you have to admit. Plus, the italians actualy *wore* black.

[RadioSilence]

Originally Posted by RamscoopRaider

That would require Britain to lose a major war (winners decide morality)

The British Empire turns Nazi, and tries to conquer America, Europe, and Asia (together with Japan) before being turned back in an heroic epic battle on land, in the skies, and across the oceans? Cold War between Germany and US afterward?

[Osakadave]

Originally Posted by d32123

"Yellow Peril" is the fear of Asians.

"Yellow Fever" is an abnormal attraction to Asians.

Heh - I almost skimmed over that.

I will note that there's a touch of Yellow Fever in the Yellow Peril - Dragon Ladies, China Dolls, Geisha Girls, Suzie Wongs, etc.

[Alex1guy]

Originally Posted by Red Cesar

The reason the Nazi's are so popular today as Villians, is because all sectors of society pretty much agree that they were some of the most vile men to ever walk the Earth.

Life isn't normally black and white...however, The Nazi's are as close as it gets.

This is why the Soviets will not work.

Haha Red Alert would like to have a word...

[RadioSilence]

Originally Posted by Alex1guy

Haha Red Alert would like to have a word...

Ah, what a game. Loved those cutscenes with Stalin. "You... disappoint me, Krukov!"

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Yes, so boring and practical:

[12yearoldvoice]"CCCCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL"[/12yearoldvoice]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

FRENCH NAZIS.

[12yearoldvoice]"CCCCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL"[/12yearoldvoice]

[John Fredrick Parker]

Originally Posted by d32123

"Yellow Fever" is an abnormal attraction to Asians.

I thought Yellow Fever was an viral hemorrhagic disease that plagued the construction of the Panama Canal? []

[d32123]

har har har

[RazeByFire]

I'm sure some of the Afrikaners could qualify, but it's hard to get past the awesome evil of Nazi SS uniforms.

[Hörnla]

Originally Posted by BigWillyG

How about surviving Imperial Germany in a CP WWI victory? Pickelhaube and Kaiser Bill mustaches as symbolic of cool bad guys?

Err, we were NOT Talking about Evil and Ultra-Uncool, mein Herr!

[Osakadave]

Originally Posted by John Fredrick Parker

I thought Yellow Fever was an viral hemorrhagic disease that plagued the construction of the Panama Canal? []

Nah, it's a song in a Yellow Peril ATL by Peggy Li...

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by FDW

[12yearoldvoice]"CCCCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL"[/12yearoldvoice]



[12yearoldvoice]"CCCCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLL"[/12yearoldvoice]

You're a strange one Mr. Woosevelt.

[Urban fox]

Originally Posted by RadioSilence

Ah, what a game. Loved those cutscenes with Stalin. "You... disappoint me, Krukov!"

You forgot the *crunch* at the end.

[modelcitizen]

I think surviving-CSA and surviving-CSA analogues provide decent villain material. With the latter, you have SM Stirling's Draka series, the ultimate drawling amoral slave-whipping fancy plantation-fetishists from hell.


A hypothetical British Imperial villain doesn't have to lose to be evil at all. Instead of nobly sacrificing the empire with the effort of prevailing in WW2, they can skip the war and just double-down on the empire with brutal racist tactics. Put a couple horsey elitist scumbags in charge who justify everything for King and Queen and convenience.


Mother____ing Belgians.

Imagine the Belgian elite getting away with remaining in ownership of the Congo...




(Also see http://www.yale.edu/gsp/colonial/bel...ngo/index.html )

[Flying Dutchman]

I agree with the Belgians.

How about colonials in general? Evil pseudo-aristocrats dressed in white-linen suit and Pith helmet. They can be supported by savage natives or the unwashed dregs from society usually ending up in the colonial armies of the 19th century.

[modelcitizen]

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

I agree with the Belgians.

How about colonials in general? Evil pseudo-aristocrats dressed in white-linen suit and Pith helmet. They can be supported by savage natives or the unwashed dregs from society usually ending up in the colonial armies of the 19th century.

Hell yes.

Another article I liked, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-6151923.html

[Alkahest]

Thanks for your replies!

I agree with those who said that the Soviets will not work simply because they are too, well, realistic. Flawed utopian intentions, petty egoism and a system that encourages utter dicks to rise to the top make for good "real life" villains, not cackling genocidal madmen in flying saucers. I think the same thing can be said about most other evil communists. Stalinist Soviet Union, Maoist PRC and even North Korea are all examples of a complete asshole in charge combined with various kinds of tragedies due to incompetence, not ideological crazy evil with a hint of coolness. (I have trouble imagining someone less cool than Kim Jong-il, honestly.) Now, I would say that Pol Pot is a different kind of animal, but the Khmer Rouge were so suicidally dumb that it's impossible to see them as a credible threat.

Put another way: It's easy to find completely evil individuals. It's less easy to find completely evil movements, ideologies or groups.

Originally Posted by Grand Prince Paul II.

I am certain that people in Drew's Fear, Loathing and Gumbo on the Campaign Trail '72 will think of Mao the Lesser and his followers as the Nazis of the second half of the 20th century.
Not only was the Lesser Mao a tyrant whose rule killed off hundreds of millions of people, but also the biggest drug lord of the world, responsible for using nuclear weapons against his own people and the devastation of much of northern Indochina.

I haven't read that TL, but that does indeed sound pretty damn cartoony. I can't imagine a guy like that staying in charge for more than a few years, tops. The drug lord angle is an interesting one, though. I might have to steal that some day.

Originally Posted by Wolf Tengu

Is it bad I could give an example of each of those?

It just shows that you're a person with distinguished cultural taste.

Originally Posted by Killer300

Yes, this is what makes Fascists and Nazis perfect villains. EVERYONE, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum pretty much, hates them.

It's depressing how many people I know who have actually had a "Nazi" phase in their lives. They're all idiots, though. My brother-in-law used to tell my fiancée she had to produce many babies because she's of pure "Aryan" lineage. I wanted to pretend to be Jewish just to spite him...

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

The Tsar's built crazy weapons.

Round battleships, giant tanks, submarines with wheels. Perfect for Doctor Evil. And being a Monarchy, I bet they had some cool uniforms. Also, cool facial hair.

Originally Posted by BigWillyG

How about surviving Imperial Germany in a CP WWI victory? Pickelhaube and Kaiser Bill mustaches as symbolic of cool bad guys?

Militarist monarchies work fine as villains, though they tend to lack the whole evil-utopian ideology thing with Thousand-Year Reichs and extermination of subhumans and whatnot.

Originally Posted by MSZ

Also, IIRC yellow fever used to be a big thing, so maybe without the Nazis, the Japanese could become that? With Cool Swords, Cool Ships, General Badassery exemplified by super-massacres and human exprimentation. Add Fu-Manchu to that and you end up with Japanese Fu-Manchu running unit 731 to breed the "perfect Asian" or something like this.

Oh man, if you ever find yourself with a few hours to spend on utter silliness, hunt down and watch the 1943 Batman serial. Batman is a government agent hunting a "Jap" whose "twisted Oriental brain" allowed him to avoid being taken to an internment camp and who hides out in Gotham's abandoned Little Tokyo, where "a wise government rounded up the shifty-eyed Japs". The villain is Dr. Daka, a Japanese secret agent with a hidden base in a Funhouse of Horrors depicting Japanese war crimes. In his secret base he has a giant Buddha statue he worships and a trap door with hungry crocodiles. "The League of the New Order of Hirohito, Heavenly Ruler and Prince of the Rising Sun, marches on, and nothing will ever stop it!" Oh, and he uses mind control hats to create zombies. I swear, best Batman villain ever.

Originally Posted by modelcitizen

I think surviving-CSA and surviving-CSA analogues provide decent villain material. With the latter, you have SM Stirling's Draka series, the ultimate drawling amoral slave-whipping fancy plantation-fetishists from hell.

It helps that Draka women tend to be bisexual dominatrices. Sadly, militaristic totalitarianism and sexually assertive women seldom mesh in real life.

Originally Posted by Wolf Tengu

What about the British?

Originally Posted by modelcitizen

A hypothetical British Imperial villain doesn't have to lose to be evil at all. Instead of nobly sacrificing the empire with the effort of prevailing in WW2, they can skip the war and just double-down on the empire with brutal racist tactics. Put a couple horsey elitist scumbags in charge who justify everything for King and Queen and convenience.


Mother____ing Belgians.

Imagine the Belgian elite getting away with remaining in ownership of the Congo...

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

How about colonials in general? Evil pseudo-aristocrats dressed in white-linen suit and Pith helmet. They can be supported by savage natives or the unwashed dregs from society usually ending up in the colonial armies of the 19th century.

I was just about to bring up the colonials, inspired by this B_Munro map. IOTL, colonialism has in some senses become this culture-wide shame carried by the entire Western world. If an anti-colonial block arose, and if an explicitly pro-colonial block developed a suitable nasty ideology (say, something based on social Darwinism), I think the colonial block would be very effective villains. As I understand it European society actually got more racist towards the end of the 19th century compared to the beginning of that century. What if that trend had continued and de facto or de jure slavery had been reintroduced, based on unpleasant interpretations of Darwinism? Such a culture could possibly be worse than the Nazis, if only because they would have more "subhumans" to mess with. Now, all we need is Hugo Boss to still be born...

[stirlingdraka]

Interesting idea. I would agree that either a surviving CSA or worse colonisism could replace the Nazis as pop-culture villians.