Earliest Possible Non-White/Christian/Male/Straight POTUS?

[oshron]

just another possibility that i want to explore for any given TL project; it would probably also be useful for anyone else considering to include something like this in their own ATL

basically, what is the earliest date in US history, with a POD no earlier than the end of the ARW, that a President could be elected who is not Caucasian, Christian of any denomination, male, and/or heterosexual. keep in mind that these don't have to be combined: it could be a female president who is also white, christian, and straight, or a non-white president who is also christian, male, and straight (much like obama). a while ago i explored the possibilities of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton being elected, but given later PODs, that simply is unlikely. so i'd like to explore other possibilities. for example, what about an Amerindian president?

[Thespitron 6000]

1856. filler

[John Fredrick Parker]

Originally Posted by Thespitron 6000

1856. filler

I think he means openly not straight (would have to be after the concept of heterosexual became mainstream -- at the very least, absolutely no earlier than 1867).

EDIT ADD: Regarding the OP -- does Native American count for non-caucasian?

[oshron]

Originally Posted by John Fredrick Parker

EDIT ADD: Regarding the OP -- does Native American count for non-caucasian?

yes. perhaps i should have specified non-european, but basically someone who is "visibly" not white even if, when you get right down to it, they're a mix of european and a non-european ethnicity (like english/mohawk, for instance) and would look non-european for the purposes of this. i'd be willing to bet that, when you get right down to it, some percentage of past presidents were non-european, but they simply dont look non-european, hence what a big deal it was when obama was nominated and elected.

[John Fredrick Parker]

Originally Posted by oshron

yes. perhaps i should have specified non-european, but basically someone who is "visibly" not white even if, when you get right down to it, they're a mix of european and a non-european ethnicity (like english/mohawk, for instance) and would look non-european for the purposes of this. i'd be willing to bet that, when you get right down to it, some percentage of past presidents were non-european, but they simply dont look non-european, hence what a big deal it was when obama was nominated and elected.

Well, Charles Curtis being part of the Kaw Tribe was a matter of public record -- is that visible enough? If so, you could just have Hoover die any time during his term in office.

[oshron]

certainly makes for an interesting possibility there's all sorts of ways that hoover could die in office

i would like to continue looking at other possibilities, though, just to keep discussion going

[oudi14]

I've wondered in the past, had even intended to start a thread about it, whether Charles Curtis could have been elected. I don't think I ever saw a photo of him, dont know how 'white' he looked, but his ethnic background was no secret. With this in mind, it must have been somewhat risky politically for Hoover to pick him for VP. Presidents did die in office more often back then, Harding's death was a recent memory. Now just for a moment suppose Hoover wins in '32, never mind how, heck, we can butterfly away FDR if we need to. So Hoover/Curtis win, the administration remains popular, no great depression, so in '36 can Curtis win the general, or even the GOP nomination? I see him having trouble in the south, with its blatant racism, but they tended to be democratic anyway. But would the average joe from, say PA or IA or CT be prepared to vote for someone who was more than half indian?
As for 1856, I'm sure Buchanan did cause some folks to raise their eyebrows, even though homosexuality wasn't talked about very much. I believe today it wouldn't be possible for a batchelor to become POTUS or even VP, never mind how straight they might be at heart. America is not ready for a gay president yet. Anybody who never married will be suspect, unless they have a reputation as a playboy, and that presents other problems; even though it didn't stop Slick Willy from getting there. [or JFK for that matter] Now, a widower - lots of people will feel sorry for him, and a whole bunch of women will want to marry him - he might succeed.

[Iori]

Well, most Presidents from the South are most likely part black or Amerindian (and elsewhere for the second) somewhere back in their family trees, but I suppose that's not the same as not looking like a W.A.S.P.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by oshron

just another possibility that i want to explore for any given TL project; it would probably also be useful for anyone else considering to include something like this in their own ATL

basically, what is the earliest date in US history, with a POD no earlier than the end of the ARW, that a President could be elected who is not Caucasian, Christian of any denomination, male, and/or heterosexual. keep in mind that these don't have to be combined: it could be a female president who is also white, christian, and straight, or a non-white president who is also christian, male, and straight (much like obama). a while ago i explored the possibilities of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton being elected, but given later PODs, that simply is unlikely. so i'd like to explore other possibilities. for example, what about an Amerindian president?

We already did in 1800.

[Falecius]

Do Washington or Jefferson count as Christians?

[oudi14]

I didn't know Jefferson had anything other than European blood, only that he had kids with a mulatto woman. As for presidents from the south having non-white ancestry, it might not matter if it was Cherokee perhaps, but black genes, no way, never mind how white he looked. And it would be hard to hide that, because someone would dig up the fact that one of his female ancestors had been a slave. After about 1950 it might be possible, but I don't see it before that. If you had one drop of black blood, you were considered black, never mind how illogical that sounds.

[Derek Jackson]

Assume a radical. successful reconstruction which has significant numbers of black Senators and Governors by the 1890s

[VictorLaszlo]

It's strange that Mexico had 2 presidents with native american ancestors in the 19th century (Benito Juárez and Porfirio Diaz), while at the same time the United States didn't even grant native americans the right to vote. The best hope to have an American with native ancestry elected president in the 19th century is to avoid the Indian Removal Acts and continue the acculturation of especially but not limited to the five civilised tribes and the intermarriage with white settlers on all social echelons. Two or three generations later a grandson of a man like Joseph Venn or John Ridge might be elected president.

[Socrates]

Originally Posted by Falecius

Do Washington or Jefferson count as Christians?

I think so. A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, and they identified as such. I don't really think it's up for people of other beliefs to decide precisely which other denominations do and do not count.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by Socrates

I think so. A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, and they identified as such. I don't really think it's up for people of other beliefs to decide precisely which other denominations do and do not count.

I believe he was referring to the fact that many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, IE they believed in a God, but that was about it.

[Plumber]

Originally Posted by oudi14

I didn't know Jefferson had anything other than European blood, only that he had kids with a mulatto woman. As for presidents from the south having non-white ancestry, it might not matter if it was Cherokee perhaps, but black genes, no way, never mind how white he looked. And it would be hard to hide that, because someone would dig up the fact that one of his female ancestors had been a slave. After about 1950 it might be possible, but I don't see it before that. If you had one drop of black blood, you were considered black, never mind how illogical that sounds.

Jefferson was part black I think, and pretty much an atheist.

A successful Reconstruction can lead to a a Black VP in the 1880s or 1890s, and then the POTUS dies...

For actually being elected, Charles Evans Hughes wins in 1916, Al Smith wins in 1920.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by VictorLaszlo

It's strange that Mexico had 2 presidents with native american ancestors in the 19th century (Benito Juárez and Porfirio Diaz), while at the same time the United States didn't even grant native americans the right to vote.

It's not really that odd when you look at each countries historical demographics.

Mexico population has always had a significant Amerindian population and larger Mestizo population, even now Indigenou Mexicans make-up 10-14% of the population and Mestizo's (mixed European and Amerindian) comprise more than 80%, this is thanks to relatively slow immigration rates (the 20th centuries stability lead to a Population Boom and high birthrates).

The United States on the other hand never had significant Indigenous populations, and as it stands Amerindians only make-up 2.5%, with Mixed-Race individuals making-up another 1.4%; this is the result of both their having been a much lower Amerindian population from the get-go, policies aimed at discriminating against them and massive immigration from Europe*.


*In the 50 year period between 1880-1930 the American population increased by 73.8 million (149.5%) people, while Mexico in comparison only increased by 6.6 million (67%) in the same period.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Mestizo is a rather general term in Mexico and the rest of Latin America. It just doesn't refer to people of mixed Amerindian and European appearance. It also applies to native Mexicans who abandon their language and culture for that of the mainstream "mestizo" culture of the country. Juarez and Diaz would be mestizos by that definition.

Anyways you have Charles Curtis for a half-Native American President, if Hoover dies in office.

[Badshah]

Maybe a Muslim is possible earlier on, as a bunch fought for the Americans in the ARW and the ACW.

[strangeland]

Non-white: probably Colin Powell in 1996 or 2000, had he wanted to run

Non-Christian: Jefferson was a Deist, but his beliefs on faith and spirituality were so complex that it's difficult to say whether or not he was a Christian. America has probably been ready for a Jewish president since the late 60s or so, but no suitable candidates have really emerged.

Non-male: Hillary Clinton in 2004 or 2008

Non-straight: not until the 2040s, probably