Berlin in a CP Victory
- Thread starter Berus
- Start date
I think Berlin could be the size of London or Paris, about 10 million or so. The city would be a lot more 'Wilhelmine' in appearance.
BlondieBC
Banned
Berlin having 10 million and Vienna having 10 million sounds about right, both with about the same footprint as Paris or Moscow.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Berlin would evolve to a World City, the center of Continental Europe. Would probably grow, and more and more become a capital of a World Power. However it would probably also more and more become the center of the German working class, and the headquarters for all kinds of Socialist movements.
In my timeline germany wents socialist in the 50s, a effect of a world war, a colonial war and unrest in Eastern europe.
Additionaly i need something that weakens germany, seeing that they lost two world wars and still are the most powerful state of europe frightens me. I fear a tooo srong germany could annex Austria Hungary or make them as puppet state.
Additionaly i need something that weakens germany, seeing that they lost two world wars and still are the most powerful state of europe frightens me. I fear a tooo srong germany could annex Austria Hungary or make them as puppet state.
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For Which Reason? Looks USA, they 'won' two wars and become the world 800 Pound Gorilla until the Vietnam Fiasco and them again when the URSS is gone until the Middle East Fiasco(and still they act like a 800 pound gorilla), 'Artifically' weaken Germany is not necesary, maybe they will learn in the bad way as USA OTL
Berlin from A Tourist and Archicthetal Point of View will be fascinating, keeping monuments and builds since the middle age(no Bombing), and not only Berling....
Saxony, Nuremberg and Munich will be Archichetal Marvels
yourworstnightmare
Banned
To be honest Austria- Hungary would probably become a German satellite in time after a CP WW1 victory, since they'd probably need German help to keep themselves together, and become economically and militarily dependent of Berlin.
As long as they keep together, who thanks to germany that can be ever, for Germany is more easy that the 'Austrian Industry'(specially the one in Bohemia/Checzs lands) keep in an Austrian Nation that being forced to become german, specially when the Protestan and maybe german catholics will never lose power as OTL.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Well, firstly Germany would have some internal problem since there will undoubtedly be a showdown between the military leaders and the Reichstag, that will either end with the junkers backing down, and more reforms are possible, or the Reichstag is dissolved, and Germany goes all junta.
Germany would become one of the most powerful nations in the World, and right after the war probably the most powerful one. France will be in decline for at least a decade. And there will probably be civil unrest with a more demanding working class showing their strength. Britain will still have a World Empire and the greatest navy in the world. Even in defeat Britain will be strong, but lack influence in Continental Europe. America will be the strongest non- European country, and only grow stronger. Of course there's always a chance Germany is challenged and another Great War will begin. France would probably be quite revanchist, maybe they can get Italy back on her feet and renew the alliance with Britain and a equally revanchist Russia. Japan will still hunger for more territory, and Germany is still the logical target for expansion in Asia with her Pacific colonies nearby. And the German rule in Mittelseuropa, and the colonial rule in Mittelsafrika will probably be shaky, and unstable. If everything plays out right, the German House of Cards could very well collapse.
Germany would become one of the most powerful nations in the World, and right after the war probably the most powerful one. France will be in decline for at least a decade. And there will probably be civil unrest with a more demanding working class showing their strength. Britain will still have a World Empire and the greatest navy in the world. Even in defeat Britain will be strong, but lack influence in Continental Europe. America will be the strongest non- European country, and only grow stronger. Of course there's always a chance Germany is challenged and another Great War will begin. France would probably be quite revanchist, maybe they can get Italy back on her feet and renew the alliance with Britain and a equally revanchist Russia. Japan will still hunger for more territory, and Germany is still the logical target for expansion in Asia with her Pacific colonies nearby. And the German rule in Mittelseuropa, and the colonial rule in Mittelsafrika will probably be shaky, and unstable. If everything plays out right, the German House of Cards could very well collapse.
PoeFacedKilla
Banned
a weak germany isn't really possible in its form, an industrial powerhouse formed by Prussia. For a weak germany you would need to keep Prussia out.
And by the way I think Austria was (at least on its way) already a German puppet.
And by the way I think Austria was (at least on its way) already a German puppet.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
At least Wilhelmine Berlin would have practical and reasonable projects, as opposed to the insane ideas of the Germania project during WWII.
RousseauX
Donor
German hegemony over Europe is not assured even in a WWI victory scenario.
A new entente between a stronger Russia (Bolshevik or otherwise), and France can contain Germany post-1918. Assuming Russia gets enough territory back and goes through similar amount of industrialization as OTL.
But he did specify that Germany manages to pull a victory in the WWII analogue, so it's overall less certain.
yes, germany also wins the alternate secound world war, Austria too. However after the world war, the big colonial war begins, Germany is already weakend and in a bad economic situation additionally the german satellite states want to leave germanys sphere, there are unrests in Poland and the Baltics. So Germanys hegemony gets weaker, they are still the top dogs, the british face similar problems aswell, India gets independent and wents communist. Also dont forget that germany didnt grew very much anymore, while Austria-Hungary economy was growing very fast.
Also, i read somewhere that germany is only so strong because (unlike france or britain) never relied on colonies. In my timeline Germany and Austria are quite equal.
http://www.genius.co.at/index.php?id=419
it is in german though
Also, i read somewhere that germany is only so strong because (unlike france or britain) never relied on colonies. In my timeline Germany and Austria are quite equal.
http://www.genius.co.at/index.php?id=419
it is in german though
yourworstnightmare
Banned
I think your problem is here. If Germany also wins the second war her status as World Power is secured. And even if Germany loses her colonial empire she will stand strong. France and Britain are still strong powers without their colonies. Germany would have secured a strong industrial working economy and continental dominance by beating the French and the Russians a second time. Winning two World Wars guarantees German dominance in Europe.
Internal political problem due to the showdown between H & L and the reichstach, the socialist who want reform and the general problem and instability of all the country after WWI. Put that with the need to prop up the new nation and the fact that Germany leaderships will probably get more of what can safely digest plus the people will not want even think about at a new european war for long time (instead of the iconic Maginot Line we can have the Sigfrid line) and you see a giant with fragile feet at least for the short/medium period. But much depend on how they win the war and no A-H will not survive in his form the war whatever she win or lose, the best scenario is a very rapid put down of the Magyar, general reform who basically make them more akin the CSA and the Hasburg relegated to merely ceremonial duty...or have a 'mysterious' incident if they don't play ball and even that is not really a given
Berlin would not become as big as Paris because unlike France the Second German Empire was not a unitary state but a federal one. Berlin might have grown to a population of 5, maybe 6 millions, but not 10. And it would not remain wilhelmine in appearance, after 1910 german architecture had left behind both the different eclectic rivival styles of the 19th century and the Art Nouveau style of the turn of the century and was, via Cubism, clearly heading towards the New Objectivity style of the 1920s and '30s. German architects like Walter Gropius and Ludwig Mies van der Rohe were among the leaders of the international avantgarde, to a point that their proposals were rejected in architectural contests in the US as too radically modernist in favour of more conservative designs (e.g. Tribune Tower).
Fagus Factory and administrative building by Walter Gropius (1911 - 1913)
A CP victory would also mean a lot more money available in Germany of which a good part would be invested in real estate. And while a part of those investments would be used to build in previously undevelopped areas the other one would be used to replace older structures in the city centre and it is important to understand that prior to the 1970s the idea of urban heritage conservation was pretty underdevelopped, a good example of that is the fact in the 1950s and '60s more historic architecture was lost in Germany than as a result of WW2. Another earlier example is the demolition of many medieval, renaissance and baroque era buildings around the then newly finished Cologne Cathedral in the 1880s and 90s to grant an unconfined view of the monument from all directions.
Fagus Factory and administrative building by Walter Gropius (1911 - 1913)
A CP victory would also mean a lot more money available in Germany of which a good part would be invested in real estate. And while a part of those investments would be used to build in previously undevelopped areas the other one would be used to replace older structures in the city centre and it is important to understand that prior to the 1970s the idea of urban heritage conservation was pretty underdevelopped, a good example of that is the fact in the 1950s and '60s more historic architecture was lost in Germany than as a result of WW2. Another earlier example is the demolition of many medieval, renaissance and baroque era buildings around the then newly finished Cologne Cathedral in the 1880s and 90s to grant an unconfined view of the monument from all directions.