Having black and white as flag for the Habsburg empire
- Thread starter Berus
- Start date
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Well, the reason for the Holy Roman colours were because they were Holy Roman Emperors, so you might want to change that.
Alex Richards
Donor
Well, you need a fundamentally different Habsburg Empire to get this to work. Developing from the Teutonic Order is a definate no as the Habsburgs predate the Teutons, so you need a Black and White Flag or Banner in the Habsburg lands to get adopted, which also probably requires that the Habsburgs lose their dominance Imperial Dignity. I can't find any in the OTL lands at the moment, which basically means that you're looking at a pretty radically divergent ATL here.
To get Black and White as colours of the HRE requires a PoD sometime in the 9th Century, so there probably won't even be any Habsburg Empire for it to be a flag of.
To get Black and White as colours of the HRE requires a PoD sometime in the 9th Century, so there probably won't even be any Habsburg Empire for it to be a flag of.
Not sure if Teutonics Knight is required, an analogue to the German Empire might be sufficient; you know, have a dominant regional black-and-white flag be picked as the basis for the new Imperial flag. I'm not sure if one exists, though.
Of course, it'd help a bit if there was a contestant for the German imperial title, as in OTL but with the roles , which could maintain the old black-and-gold colours; don't forget that the OTL Austrian empire only got rid of black-and-gold because of the fusion with the Kingdom of Hungary.
So, it's not unlikely the Habsburg Empire would use non-Holy Roman Empire colours if the Prussian-based German Empire had already chosen to use them, but you'd need to find a source for that black-and-white. The Teutonic Order is a possibility, but unlikely considering its ties with Prussia. Of course, you could just always make a source up; this is AH.com, after all.
Of course, it'd help a bit if there was a contestant for the German imperial title, as in OTL but with the roles , which could maintain the old black-and-gold colours; don't forget that the OTL Austrian empire only got rid of black-and-gold because of the fusion with the Kingdom of Hungary.
So, it's not unlikely the Habsburg Empire would use non-Holy Roman Empire colours if the Prussian-based German Empire had already chosen to use them, but you'd need to find a source for that black-and-white. The Teutonic Order is a possibility, but unlikely considering its ties with Prussia. Of course, you could just always make a source up; this is AH.com, after all.
Depends on the exact circumstances of how it occurred, and why this one was chosen. A different flag by itself wouldn't necessarily change history to a significant amount, though.
Alex Richards
Donor
That was Red and White (did modern Austria derive it from that flag?) not black and white.
Well, you didn't really have national flags until the early modern period, so it is quite possible for the design to derive from different sources. The main problem I foresee is that black-white already has a fairly strong association with the Teutonic order (with which the Habsburgs had little connection). It would neded to come from some other source.
Interesting for times to come, given that black-white was associated with Prussia. Maybe the Prussians will choose a different symbolism.
Interesting for times to come, given that black-white was associated with Prussia. Maybe the Prussians will choose a different symbolism.
I would like to have black and white as colours for my Greater Austria. I dont mind when the colour gets adopted though. maybe they get adopted when the empire reforms, which would be around 1920 in my timeline. but what could black and white i mean, those colours dont really symboloize anything or from where could they be derived from ? even though it would look quite cool 
´I mean white could stand for peace and unity between the different nationalities of the Habsburg empire, but what could black stand for?
´I mean white could stand for peace and unity between the different nationalities of the Habsburg empire, but what could black stand for?
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Redbeard
Banned
A thought: Austria and her S. German allies wins a crushing victory over Prussia in 1866 and in 1870-71 an Austrian led all-German alliance gives the French a good thrashing too.
The events of course spur the Austrians to reinvent some kind of Holy Roman Empire, but in order not to provoke the N.German Protestants too much the (Prussian) black and white colors are chosen for the new “Heilige Deutsches Reich” with an Habsburg on the Throne.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
The events of course spur the Austrians to reinvent some kind of Holy Roman Empire, but in order not to provoke the N.German Protestants too much the (Prussian) black and white colors are chosen for the new “Heilige Deutsches Reich” with an Habsburg on the Throne.
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Best bet would be be Fred the Great marrying Maria Theresa or something like that (Istr a thread on the subject). Afaik, the red and white were the colours of the Babenburg dynasty which preceded the Habsburgs in Austria.
A red and white pennant was also the flag of the Hanseatic League, but I don't think there's any conection with Austria.
A red and white pennant was also the flag of the Hanseatic League, but I don't think there's any conection with Austria.