So the Nazis decide to carry out Sealion; Do they fail at sea, or on the beaches?

[Orko]

A pretty simple question. Does the RN destroy the invasion force while it is still at sea, or would the Germans be able to land/paratroop most of their troops and only then fail?

[mowque]

A few might wash up, but most will be stymied by the planes and the ships.

[sharlin]

I'd say they would get ashore then the RN would react within a day or so and basically 'zerg rush' the channel with absolutely everything that can float and fight. With no supplies the Germans would eventually be forced to surrender. It would be a painful victory for the UK but a huge morale boost and an enraged hitler.

[Ironstark]

I thought the British plan was to let some germans land, then curbstomp them so that the germans lose alot more men, thus preventing the germans from pulling a dunkirk and saving alot of their materials/supplies/men?

[sharlin]

it would probably take the RN a day or so to get its rear in gear and organise the ships to go into the channel whilst co-ordinating with the RAF to try and provide some cover so the Germans would probably get significant numbers of infantry ashore only to get trapped between the sea and the British defences.

This was wargamed some time ago at Sandhurst and I know the UK won but I can't remember how, I think it was a case of the RN smashing the supplies and bombarding the bejasus out of the landing beaches and letting the germans run out of supplies.

[trekchu]

To put it in the words of JN1 on another board:

I suspect what actually happened was that the Germans struggled ashore, ran out of everything and were arrested by Kent Constabulary for parking a Panzer on a double yellow line.

[modelcitizen]

They will fail on the sea, they will fail on the beaches. They will fail on the landing grounds, they will fail in the fields and in the streets, they will fail in the hills. They will fail in the air. They will fail on that island.

[Danth]

Tbf I would feel sorry for the landing troops

Us Brits planned to leak oil into the ocean and set the sea on fire

We planned to gas the enemy

We were really determined to defend those green hills behind us

[Shaby]

I have a very hard time picturing those barges that have been bobbing up and down The Channel for past 48 hours (some even 72) getting anywhere near British coast. Their sailing, erm, capabilities were such that most would sink after few destroyers pass by them. I'd truly be amazed if those poor, poor souls embarked on them for two whole days would be able to lift their hands in surrender, let alone fight.

[BlairWitch749]

The first wave probably lands barring an intel total boondoggle (which isn't too likely in 8/40)

It takes the RN 24 hours to steam the fleet from Scapa to the channel to interdict

In those 24 hours the landing forces and the paratroopers/airlanding probably capture at least 1 number 11 group field which will be very disruptive (on top of holes they may generate in the home chain due to stations captured or destroyed to avoid capture)

This lets the LW give the RN a hard time when they reach the channel; however the LW is devoid of bombs that can sink a battle wagon and their torpedo bombing assets are negligable; so the RN will lose a number of small ships and suffer appalling but not crippling damage to their big ships; however the battleships will blow the shit out of calais and bolounge and the other embarkation ports especially at night; they will also massacre the german bridgeheads with 15 inch fire and secondary batteries; at which point the invasion will collapse

[Grey Wolf]

Was there really a plan to flood the sea with oil and set it alight?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[sharlin]

It was a plan of desperation but yes, in places they would try and flood the landing beaches with fuel and try igniting it.

[BlairWitch749]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

Was there really a plan to flood the sea with oil and set it alight?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

yes, there was also a plan to lay electric cables in the shallows and electrocute the landing forces

winnie was not a man particularly known for practical ideas

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

Was there really a plan to flood the sea with oil and set it alight?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I've seen pictures of beach defences with systems like that, though that might be more anti landing systems than a more wide scale system but given the options the UK had then it would be one to create problems for an invasion

[Michel Van]

I think most of them will die in english channel
because the Wehrmacht had no landing boats like D-Day, they wanted to use seized river barges !
The river barges would be easy targets for Royal Navy

IMHO 2/3 of 67000 men will drown in english channel.

more on this TL
http://alternatehistory.com/discussi...2&postcount=12

[MattII]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

Was there really a plan to flood the sea with oil and set it alight?

Yes, but it was quickly dropped as impractical. more successful were exploding oil drums and plans to flood dips in the road with the stuff and set it alight. There were also eventually about 28,000 pillboxes of 20 different types (8 standard and 12 local types) constructed, as well as embrasuring of pre-existing walls and buildings, the stop-lines, improvised AFVs and other preparations.

Most of these would not have been hard to defeat for a well-prepared force, but the Germans would not be going in well prepared, they'd have limited supplies, and lack much in the way of vehicles (the canal barges had limited transport capabilities).

[yourworstnightmare]

At sea. Britain has a navy, dontcha know.

[MattII]

Could a mix of luftwaffe and U-Boats do much damage to the RN (luftwaffe to go after the destroyers and RAF and U-Boats for the big ships)?

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by MattII

Could a mix of luftwaffe and U-Boats do much damage to the RN (luftwaffe to go after the destroyers and RAF and U-Boats for the big ships)?

I would presume that the LW would be facing attack from the RAF , and the RN would be maneuvering to make an U boat attack difficult, by the time of Sealion had the German's fixed their defective torpedo issues?

Certainly the RN is going to lose ships but given their numbers they should still be able to pose a threat to any invasion I would think.

[Catspoke]

Wouldn't it make sense for the RN to attack only with submarines and light craft (including destroyers but not even the best/latest destroyers). It seems like it would be able to successfully attrition the invasion force with these alone, not risking the Battleships and Cruisers, which would be necessary for Italy and Japan (and when the German heavy units get repaired).

The British land defences are not shabby either with the Canadians right there in Kent so there is no need to risk Britains most necessary military naval assets.