WI: Hitler Escaped

[Emperor Norton I]

Hitler died in Berlin in 1945, shortly before Germany's total defeat. Since then, there has been conspiratorial thought that Hitler did not die there, but managed to escape. This is not the case, but what if such a scenario were to have actually happened? What if, instead of killing himself, Hitler did seek to, and did manage to escape from Germany?

[Minchandre]

Originally Posted by Emperor Norton I

Hitler died in Berlin in 1945, shortly before Germany's total defeat. Since then, there has been conspiratorial thought that Hitler did not die there, but managed to escape. This is not the case, but what if such a scenario were to have actually happened? What if, instead of killing himself, Hitler did seek to, and did manage to escape from Germany?

I foresee a peaceful, anonymous retirement in southern Brazil or Argentina, accompanied by a lifetime of fearing the Mossad.

[Torn but Flying]

I think Hitler was pretty set on his 'Gotterdammerung.' If he does leave the bunker I can only see it being to continue the fight for a few more weeks at the Alpine fortress that was being prepared - I just can't imagine him running away with the intention of saving his skin.

Also - where does he end up? For countries like Argentina, Spain etc there's a big difference between accepting Nazi apparatchiks seeking asylum and harbouring the person who will definitely be the most wanted man in history.

[jmc247]

Given Hitler's personally and mentality I believe this is ASB.

First he was very demented by 1945 second he really did mean victory or death for himself, the Heer and Germany as a whole.

[Macragge1]

Originally Posted by jmc247

Given Hitler's personally and mentality I believe this is ASB.

First he was very demented by 1945 second he really did mean victory or death for himself, the Heer and Germany as a whole.

What do you think 'ASB' means? Seriously.

[jmc247]

Originally Posted by Macragge1

What do you think 'ASB' means? Seriously.

Look Hitler getting knocked out in a bombing and being flown out of German by his loyalists I see as possible. Hitler deciding that that he will flee to South America and try to live in hiding I don't see it. You would have to change his personality and mindset.

[lounge60]

Hitler possibles disguises-. (original US photo):

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...siblefaces.jpg

[Orsino]

It is hard to see how Hitler could successfully get out and stay free, as others have said this would be very different to any other Nazi hiding out in Argentina, no one is going to turn a blind eye to the former Fuhrer and the Allies will be absolutely committed to finding and capturing him.

And then of course there is the why, I could see Hitler relocating to the country to continue the fight but he wasn't at all interested in a quiet, defeated retirement, that would be counter to the man's whole make-up. The only way I see Hitler leaving is if he's delusional enough to think he'll one day be able to return and lead the German people in an uprising against the Allies.

[black angel]

Hitler was a broken man in 1945, any escape would likely be outside what he physically could do, but even if a number of SS boys carry him out of Berlin he's dead with-in 6 months to a year

[The Vulture]

Originally Posted by jmc247

Given Hitler's personally and mentality I believe this is ASB.

First he was very demented by 1945 second he really did mean victory or death for himself, the Heer and Germany as a whole.

So you're going on record as saying aliens are the only thing that can change people's minds.

Anyways, where's he going to go? What's he going to do? How's he going to keep secret? What's to stop his retainers from selling out the most wanted man in history? How long until he's found out? How does he even leave Germany in the first place?

[kevvy2010]

Hitler is drugged by his doctor, Theodor Morell, at the request of his subordinates and is dragged out of the bunker to his mountain fortress. Berlin is abandoned shortly thereafter and the nazis hold off for as long as they can, regrouping whatever forces that can still move into the mountains.

The area is eventually overrun by Allied forces. From there, one of two things can happen. One is that he is captured by the Allies and placed under arrest. Whether he stands trial at Neuremberg depends on his health.

The other scenario is that his most loyal subordinates drug him again, disguise him, and blend in with the refugees heading wherever (that means shaving Hitler's moustache and all his hair, perhaps using makeup to make him look a little different.

However, if Hitler is dragged out of Berlin, it's very questionable on whether or not he'd even want to continue fighting. The loss of the capitol would be a devastating blow to him and his ego. The only effect of leaving Berlin might be his suicide being delayed and in a different place. It might also allow someone like Goering to assume command (like he tried to do OTL) and co-ordinate a defense for as long as he could.

Ultimately, Hitler's escape would have meant nothing other than he gets to live out the rest of his days in painful suffering as his multiple diseases slowly eat away at his mind and body until he eventually dies. With the war essentially lost (and to Hitler, with Berlin lost) he would likely have finally lost the will to fight.

[Torn but Flying]

Is there any historical basis for Hitler being drugged - was that ever an option? Reading Kershaw's book about the last days of the Third Reich his subordinates were still completely in his thrall right up to the end - what would Hitler's reaction be to being drugged in direct contradiction to his wishes? I'm not sure anyone would have risked it.

[jmc247]

Originally Posted by The Vulture

So you're going on record as saying aliens are the only thing that can change people's minds.

There are limits to 'mind changing' and for this POD his mind and body would need a real make over. He was a physical and mental wreck by this point in time. If anything the movie Downfall downplayed how far gone he was in that regard. Second his mentality was ardently that Germany was his and he would go down with it and that Germany and its people should go down with him.

Finally, well I will leave it to black angel.

Hitler was a broken man in 1945, any escape would likely be outside what he physically could do, but even if a number of SS boys carry him out of Berlin he's dead with-in 6 months to a year.

[Alex1guy]

I agree with Black-Angel. Without proper medical help from a fully staffed hospital (not exactly an option at this time considering most were bombed or were in Allied hands) Hitler is a dead man. He isn't going to last more than a few months.

[black angel]

Originally Posted by Alex1guy

I agree with Black-Angel. Without proper medical help from a fully staffed hospital (not exactly an option at this time considering most were bombed or were in Allied hands) Hitler is a dead man. He isn't going to last more than a few months.

given the shape he was in I doubt he'd be able to live on the run, physically, the man could hardly walk only moving with a stooped shuffle, his right hand constantly and violently shook, both likely a side effect of his Parkinson's, he also had been using amphetamines daily for nearly 3 years, this is not a man who's body could have held up to being on the run, even if it was by trains and cars, not likely on foot with many nights sleeping in barns or in open fields

[Alex1guy]

Originally Posted by black angel

given the shape he was in I doubt he'd be able to live on the run, physically, the man could hardly walk only moving with a stooped shuffle, his right hand constantly and violently shook, both likely a side effect of his Parkinson's, he also had been using amphetamines daily for nearly 3 years, this is not a man who's body could have held up to being on the run, even if it was by trains and cars, not likely on foot with many nights sleeping in barns or in open fields

Actually you're right, he'd be lucky to last more than a few weeks. The interesting effect would be on the Allied and Soviet propaganda. Who would head the hunt do you think? Would it be the WAllies or the Soviets? Would it be a combined operation or would the respective agencies take it upon themselves. (God that would make an epic 50's film "The Hunt For Adolf Hitler!")

[Zuvarq]

Originally Posted by The Vulture

Anyways, where's he going to go? What's he going to do? How's he going to keep secret? What's to stop his retainers from selling out the most wanted man in history?

He could grow out an Orthodox Jewish beard .

[Wolfpaw]

Originally Posted by black angel

[T]his is not a man who's body could have held up to being on the run, even if it was by trains and cars, not likely on foot with many nights sleeping in barns or in open fields

This was actually a specific dread of Hitler's, possibly because of his intense hypochondria.

[black angel]

Originally Posted by Wolfpaw

This was actually a specific dread of Hitler's, possibly because of his intense hypochondria.

likely if Hitler was on the run, it'd be basically dragged along by members of the inner circle, ether out of loyalty (like the Goebbels) and not being able to live with out him, and/or the need to keep him alive as a symbol, ether way I don't see him being any help, maybe if he had a break down before the Battle of Berlin was no longer anything close to sane we might see this happen, but as some one else pointed out the inner circle was still scared of him and taking orders

[hairysamarian]

Originally Posted by jmc247

Given Hitler's personally and mentality I believe this is ASB.

It's wildly improbable, but it does not require magic, alien intervention or a suspension of natural law. It's not ASB.