Official "Retrospective History of the United States" Challenge Thread

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

The War of 1804- Adams declares War on France towards the end of his second term. Takes Louisiana in the peace agreement. The Main POD. Inspires the concept of Americans being "the Protectors of Liberty" by liberating Haiti and Louisiana from Napoleon. Leads to a more progressive US.

The POD has to be either during or prior to the 1789 election, since Jay was elected VP, not Adams. Of course, that doesn't necessarily preclude events from occurring in your TL as you describe.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

The POD has to be either during or prior to the 1789 election, since Jay was elected VP, not Adams. Of course, that doesn't necessarily preclude events from occurring in your TL as you describe.

Yeah, I know, but this is the major difference here, the War of 1804 and John Adams's 2nd term.

[OAM47]

My PoD is basically a strong clique forming around Jay that pushes him to become VP. Instead of anything big that even warrants a bullet point, the minor details of politics among those elected to the house and senate make for a minor change in attitude among the people and electors.

[Komodo20]

So, I want to contribute to this, but I am not sure if I would qualify/how much I can contribute. I know that I do not have the time, imagination or desire to craft an entire TL, so I wanted to do a rough TL in the fashion of Craigo's "TL-191: Filling in the gaps", in which I would write brief blurbs/bios/etc. about people and things in the "retroverse." Would that be okay, you think?

For your consideration, my take on Gerald Ford, and the 1976 election (first entry of the Komodoverse):

Gerald Ford holds the distinction of being the USA's 9th and last President from the Republican Party. His election marked one of the last and highest peaks of the Republican Party, which despite losing the Presidential elections of 1968 and 1972 had become a powerful force in the House of Representatives and Senate during the 1970's. They had initially taken the House during the 1970 mid-terms, due to widespread discontent with President Humphrey's handling of the Vietnam War, which he had inherited from his predecessor, Lyndon B. Johnson. Despite the fact that they actually lost seats in the 1972 election (in which George McGovern, running on a peace platform, defeated Republican Senator Richard Nixon), the mass defection of millions of Democratic voters to the Socialist Workers' Party left the Republicans with a plurality of seats in the House. By co-operating with conservatives from the Democratic Party, the Republicans were able to nominate and elect Gerald Ford Speaker of the House as well as impede attempted legislation by the Socialist Workers' Party and the left-leaning wing of the Democratic Party, to which President McGovern belonged. In 1974, they achieved an outright (if slim) majority in the House and a plurality in the Senate. By 1976, the Republican Party seemed poised for a Presidential comeback.

However, they did not reclaim the Presidency on their own. It was, in the end, the (temporary) splintering of the Democratic Party that spelled the end for President George McGovern, who faced opposition from both the Socialist Workers' Party and Republican Party. While calling him a "moderate Republican" (as his political opponents within his party called him) was blatantly inaccurate, it can be agreed that much of the legislation passed during his term did have a distinctive Republican flavor. When the primaries for the Democratic nomination began in 1976, McGovern found himself facing not one but two significant challengers: James "Jimmy" Carter, from the conservative wing of the party, and Eugene McCarthy, who challenged that McGovern had betrayed the Democratic Party to the Republicans. The resulting Democratic National Convention was utter chaos: Carter managed to secure the nomination (denying re-election to McGovern) and Eugene McCarthy announced that he would run for the Presidency regardless, as an Independent candidate.

The Republican Primaries were even more divided. For the first time in a decade and a half, the Republicans found themselves without a strong leading candidate. Initially there were 14 candidates for the nomination, but as the primaries wound down the number was significantly reduced. When the dust cleared and the Republican National Convention met, only 4 men held enough delegates to influence the outcome: Robert Dole, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, and, most surprisingly, Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon, the party elder, Senator from California (OOC: I had him run for Senate in the 1970 mid-terms, and win - also, he will be getting a big bio from me later on) and three-time Presidential nominee, had earlier on made a public appearance in which he stated that he would not formally run, but would accept the nomination if drafted. He nearly was. The "Draft Nixon" movement and subsequent write-in campaign managed to give Nixon several vital (and shocking) victories in the primaries, including in California (much to the ire of Ronald Reagan, who was a bitter rival of Nixon's). Nixon and Dole realistically had little chance of obtaining the nomination, but both would act as power-brokers. It came down to Ford and Reagan, and Ford managed to out-maneuver his opponent. There was a brief discussion of offering Nixon vice-president, but this was never seriously considered and Nixon, in the end, endorsed Ford and released his delegates to him in exchange for several domestic policy points on the 1976 Platform. Dole was offered the VP slot. Ford had secured the Republican nomination.

The Democratic Party suffered its first defeat in 16 years (and last in the following 32) in 1976. In many ways, the 1976 elections was one of the lowest points of the Democratic Party - not since their dark days of the pre-1928 years (when a Democratic candidate was lucky to get a quarter of the vote, never mind the 40% it usually took to win) had they performed so poorly. As the left splintered into far-left, left and center-left factions the Republican Party remained united and stood ready to profit from their opponent's disharmony. Eugene McCarthy cost Carter thousands of votes and several key states, but surprisingly he did not play as significant a role as expected by political pundits of the time. Rather, it was Margaret Wright and the People's Party that cost Carter the election. This loose alliance of dissatisfied Socialists, ecologists and feminists initially seemed to have little chance of success. However, it was saved by the defection of tens of thousands of dissatisfied Democrats. And of course, the Socialist Workers' Party ran a candidate, as well. With every voter left-of-center split between 4 candidates, there was no way for the Republican Party to lose - and they didn't. The Presidency went to Gerald Ford, and for the last time (at time of writing) a Republican would sit in the White House.

[snerfuplz]

Interesting post. Just watch out for the butterflies. The Vietnam War and the Cold War in general would be completely different then OTL. Given the USA is more tolerant I can expect the *Cold War would be against colonial powers so a *Vietnam War would be probably against the French. But seriously I would have to think the Great Power system would last rather then the United States becoming a Superpower

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Nah. Maybe Dukakis?

How about a reactionary congress with enough sway to override a veto?

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

How about a reactionary congress with enough sway to override a veto?

Sounds good.

[Turquoise Blue]

By the way...


Spencer Perceval and Charles C. Pinckney - The Men who Avoided War.

It is widely accepted, that if John Bellingham had been successful in his attempted assassination of Spencer Perceval, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in 1812, and the Democratic-Republican Party kept united in 1808, and led Madison to victory, there would have been another Anglo-American War, as tensions between the British and the Americans had been increasing for a while before that. Impressment would have provided the last spark needed for war. Thankfully, as we all know, Spencer Perceval and C.C. Pinckney held cool heads, and arranged an negotiation, which later became known as the Treaty of Trois-Riveries, that ended impressment and paved the way for better Anglo-American relations. This negotiation could have ended in disaster had it continued beyond March 4, 1813. The American side knew that if Madison took office, and they were not finished, he would try his best to trigger another Anglo-American war. So, the American side retorted to compromise and agreement, and by July 22, 1812, the treaty was made, and it was signed that very day, into legal existence. This was 200 years ago, and now we know that all Anglo-American co-operation ultimately derives itself from the Treaty of Trois-Riveries.


SEO: Blueverse. EarlyYears.

[The Red]

SEO: Redverse.

The Broken Union

"Mental wounds still screaming
Driving me insane
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train"

- Ozzy Osbourne

With slavery becoming the dominant issue in America, either in the ethics of the issue itself or the vested interests it represented, the time was ripe for abolitionists to create a new progressive political party, to unite Whigs, Free Soilers and northern Democrats. Despite the comfortable victory of Winfield Scott in the 1852 election, a Democratic resurgence in the 1854 midterms over the ongoing violence in the south threatened the Whig dominance of American politics. In an attempt to reunite the the disaffected Free Soilers, and to tap into the populist cause of abolitionism in the North, the Republican party was announced to much fan fare with a focus on 'free men, free labour, and free land'.

Despite being immediately popular in the north, the party further horrified the Southern plantation owners, who attempted to prevent it's momentum moving south. As the 1856 election promised to be a landslide for the Republican party in the North, they were successfully prevented ballot access in the South, an act which the Southern aristocracy hoped might force the election to the Electoral College. Fearmongering was also used, threatening that the Republican candidate, John Fremont was an anti-Southern madman who would break the union.

Fremont however, used these attacks to his advantage, he framed the election as a fight for American freedom and democracy, labeling his Democratic opponent James Buchanan as a puppet who was holding the American people hostage for the benefit of the Southern elite. The Know Nothings, a party which had gained traction from Conservative Whigs who couldn't stomach the Republican party, where decried as being unpatriotic for refusing to take part in Fremonts crusade. On election day, Fremont won every single state where he was on the ballot, consistently with over 90% majorities. If write-in ballots in states where he was not on the ballot were to be counted (they weren't) he would have won 85% of the popular vote.

Despite this overwhelming mandate, Fremont's presidency was plagued by the Southern threat of Secession over the Slavery issue, despite his promise on working for abolition of the slave trade in America, he would not go any further than maintaining the Whig stance of no new slave states and began to pursue a bizarre attempt at limiting the amount of slaves which could be brought into the country at any one time. Fearing that the Republicans would go the way of the Liberty Party, the party machinery decided to drop the unpopular Fremont in favour of Abraham Lincoln, the hero of the party's radicals, adopted a platform of immediate end to the slave trade, and a move toward emancipation towards the end of his term. He dismissed threats about Southern secession arguing that even the Democrats could no longer pretend this was a possibility, after their northern and southern wings split at the Democratic convention over the issue. However this was in fact a sign that the threat was very much a real one, the Southern democrats had put the South before their own party.

For the hellfire preachers and their brethern, the death of Reverend Jones had been taken as a signal from God, a call to arms. Brown welcomed the political change that the Republicans promised but soon realised that Fremont lacked the courage to do as he promised, and feared that any Republican would inevitably be the same. Whilst many Southerner's believed that the worst was over, Brown was arming and drilling his defensive militia into a guerilla force. After the death of Jones in 1858, Browns men began to disappear in Missouri and Virginia. In 1860, southern slavers and overseers also began to go missing.Whilst many of the slaves would never be seen again, the slavers had a tendency to re-appear, badly mutiliated, hanging from trees outside their homes or towns. Sings around their necks would declare 'I treated my fellow men as property', or 'This is God's vengeance'. Brown's terror campaign had begun.

Brown's strategy was a simplistic one, he would murder as many slave owners as possible until the Southern states saw reason. Freeing the slaves themselves was relegated to a secondary role, Brown claimed that they would liberate themselves, although it is likely his resources were merely too stretched as it was to support large amounts of freed slaves. In responses to the terror, large militias began to be assembled by the slave states to protect slave owners and hunt down Brown. These were partially successful in limiting the attacks and capturing Browns supplies, but Brown himself remained elusive.

Whilst running a rather private campaign, Lincoln refused to condemn Brown, who was a folk hero for many in the north. This solidified Southern paranoia over the North, who seemed to be uncaring of, or actively supporting Brown's terror campaign. When Lincoln won by a landslide in November, the fifteen slave states of the South announced their secession, rapidly forming an emergency Government in Montgomery, Alabama. Martial law and conscription were called for by the fifteen states, eager to crush Brown's abolitionists as quickly as possible. More aggressive anti-guerilla tactics became adopted. The border with the Union was closed to deny further supply, and Union forts surrounded.

Lincoln had ignored the warnings of his more moderate peers, and now ignored the Confederacy's existence. The growing power of the newly christened Confederate army however, and their refusal to re-open the border with Union states demanded a response. Lincoln called for a Union army, a call heeded by many Northerners ready to fight to break the aristocratic domination in the south and end Slavery once and for all. The new Confederate military governor Thomas Jackson, matched Lincolns call, warning that northern invasion was an immediate danger.

The powder keg was in it's place, it now only had to be lit.

[Turquoise Blue]

The Big Upset: The Democratic victory in 1928

The Democratic Party before 1927 and after 2015 and the Democratic Party between those, are too different to compare. One was right-wing, thus in the USA, they were not popular. The other was liberal, verging on socialist, so they were popular in the USA. Who, who could have took a party like Jackson's and make it the party that Lincoln would have voted for? Who could have taken it, made friends with the Populists in it, and encouraged the Socialists and Progressives to join it? Well, this man was the last leader of the Socialist/Progressive Party, Upton Beall Sinclair Jr., and he envisioned a future where the Democratic Party would be liberal/social democratic, an party which genuinely cared for the proletariat. He observed that William Jennings Bryan, when he ran his three times, he gathered a lot of electoral votes, anomalous for a Democrat candidate, and he concluded that a liberal Democratic Party would have a chance of victory. He opened negotiations with Martin Radley, the leader of the Democratic Party, for a possible merger of the Socialist/Progressive Party and the Democratic Party. Radley was desperate for his party to succeed, for they lost to the Communists in 1924, and he concluded that the Democratic Party must change if it wants to win. This offer by Sinclair was exactly what Radley was looking for. Negotiations continued into 1927, until finally, the announcement was made. The Socialist/Progressive Party and the Democratic Party shall merge into the Democratic and Social Progressive Party, more commonly known as the Democratic Party. A splinter faction of the Socialists, under Norman Thomas, refused to recognize the merger, and nominated Thomas himself, in 1928, 1932, 1936, 1940, 1944 and 1948. And Henry A. Wallace would take some Progressives out of the Democratic Party in 1948, to reform the Progressive Party. This one was the only Progressive Party not to win the election it was in. It is widely accepted that without Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Progressive faction of the Democratic and Social Progressive Party would have eventually vanished or left, as they did in 2015. Herbert Hoover expected to win the 1928 election, but this announcement shocked him. He knew that an liberal Democratic Party would be hard competition...

SEO: Blueverse. SocialProgressiveEra.

[Nerdlinger]

Good show, Komodo, Blue, and Red. Keep it up!

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

Good show, Komodo, Blue, and Red. Keep it up!

Much appreciated!

Also here's the map of the lean, mean, enslavin' machine that is TTL's Confederacy,

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by The Red

Much appreciated!

Also here's the map of the lean, mean, enslavin' machine that is TTL's Confederacy,

Big! You indicated that thirteen slave states seceded, which I assumed included Missouri and Kentucky along with the 11 from OTL. In OTL, Maryland and Delaware were also slave states, and the map here shows they seceded as well, so that would be 15. In any case, what happens to DC? That's interesting in and of itself.

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

Big! You indicated that thirteen slave states seceded, which I assumed included Missouri and Kentucky along with the 11 from OTL. In OTL, Maryland and Delaware were also slave states, and the map here shows they seceded as well, so that would be 15.

Argh, thanks for the catch.

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

In any case, what happens to DC? That's interesting in and of itself.

The Confederate border states are all essentially on the verge of Chaos, 'maintaining the border' is Jackson's politicspeak for 'semi-occupation'. The CSA in ITTL is bigger, stronger and craftier but it isn't nearly as internally stable. D.C is in the middle of this stand off. Jackson knows he can take it if he wishes but he'd rather Lincoln and his Yankees do that themselves, Lincoln has no intention of this of course, and is merely waiting until Union forces outnumber the Rebs in the east before giving the go-ahead for invasion.

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by The Red

The Confederate border states are all essentially on the verge of Chaos, 'maintaining the border' is Jackson's politicspeak for 'semi-occupation'. The CSA in ITTL is bigger, stronger and craftier but it isn't nearly as internally stable. D.C is in the middle of this stand off. Jackson knows he can take it if he wishes but he'd rather Lincoln and his Yankees do that themselves, Lincoln has no intention of this of course, and is merely waiting until Union forces outnumber the Rebs in the east before giving the go-ahead for invasion.

I see. Would the US government have set up shop elsewhere, like Philadelphia? And you speak of Stonewall like he's the leader of the CSA. What of Davis and Lee?

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

I see. Would the US government have set up shop elsewhere, like Philadelphia?

In all but name, for the sake of prestige, think Moscow in late 1941.

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

And you speak of Stonewall like he's the leader of the CSA. What of Davis and Lee?

He sort of is, the CS is under Martial Law for the duration of the 'Emergency'. In reality Jackson is something of a figurehead backed for a junta of plantation owners and southern democrats (think Business Coup y'all), whilst Lee is a senior officer in the Confederate Army.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

Good show, Komodo, Blue, and Red. Keep it up!

Thanks a lot, Nerdlinger.

-------------------

SEO: AbVerse
The War of 1804
& the Adams Legacy

Originally Posted by John Adams, President of the United States, 1797-1805

America must be the bastion of liberty, and this, this insane enemy of the doctrine of liberty and equality, Napoleon, must be vanquished from this continent!

Throughout his first term, John Adams provoked war with France. The revolutionary state turned away from it's original doctrine, and sunk into a sea of blood. John Adams made sure people knew that when the election came, Adams stance against France was well liked, due to the horror stories of the newspapers. The French took this very seriously and in January of 1804 invaded America as revenge, but also for resources for for the broken state.Building up the US forces from the beginning of his term, Adams attacked French Louisiana from the Mississippi and Northwest Territories in February of 1804. Winning the Battle of New Orleans, and attacking Haiti to give it independence, Adams vanquished the French in North America with about 9 months of war.

Throughout Jefferson's term, the legacy of John Adams lived throughout. Jefferson settled the war, taking the Louisiana Territory from Napoleon. He organized it, and sent Meriweather Lewis and William Clark to explore it.

Charles Coatsworth Pinckney settled qualms with the British, setting America's northern border west of the Great Lakes at the 49th parellel, as well as discussing the possiblity of the annexation of Florida. The fledgeling republic, like any infant was growing at an alarming rate. Pinckney also set the path for the anti-slavery era to come, by manumitting all slaves north of the Mason-Dixon line as well as the Ohio River. Some counties in western Virginia also manumitted their slaves.

The Madison and Clinton presidencies passed rather uneventfully, as the republic steadied her growth, as settled in.

But politics however, went mad.

The Democratic-Republican and Federalist Parties began to crack, with the Democratic Republican party splitting in two. The National Republicans, who later, under Clay, renamed themselves the Whigs after the British party of the same name, consisted of liberal DRs and Federalists.
Andrew Jackson created the Democratic Party out of the conservative branch of the DRs.

Hence began the anti-slavery, fiery, and crazy years know to us know as the Age of Clay.

[snerfuplz]

Found this on google book which lists the national conventions and platforms of all political parties from 1789-1908: http://books.google.com/books?id=DBg...201808&f=false

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

Throughout his first term, John Adams provoked war with France. The revolutionary state turned away from it's original doctrine, and sunk into a sea of blood. John Adams made sure people knew that when the election came, Adams stance against France was well liked, due to the horror stories of the newspaper. Building up the US forces from the beginning of his term, Adams attacked French Louisiana from the Mississippi and Northwest Territories in February of 1804. Winning the Battle of New Orleans, and attacking Haiti to give it independence, Adams vanquished the French in North America with about 9 months of war.

Even with the French suffering from disease and Royal Navy blockade, is this very plausible? French invasion of America might make more sense, there were even traitors preparing for it in the US Govt and military.

Overall though, very good start.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by The Red

Even with the French suffering from disease and Royal Navy blockade, is this very plausible? French invasion of America might make more sense, there were even traitors preparing for it in the US Govt and military.

Overall though, very good start.

I orginally had that in there. I forgot a sentence in the post.