Official "Retrospective History of the United States" Challenge Thread

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

I'm planning on Lincoln being impeached by a Democratic Congress when the war is at an close, letting Johnson in. That way I can keep Abe alive.

Sounds better than getting shot in the head. Was the "same death date as OTL" just for the elections?

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

Being born and raised Springfield, IL, I shun you for disrespecting the second greatest person who came out of my town!

Hey, I'm planning greater things for him. And you know I love irony, so guess who are the two inventors of the modern American left?

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Hey, I'm planning greater things for him. And you know I love irony, so guess who are the two inventors of the modern American left?

How dare you woman! How dare you!


(Storms of crying gently)
Abe...sniff sniff....



Just kidding, you know Jimmy Carter, who has a foundation dedicated to destroying corruption is going to get impeached for corruption.

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

How dare you woman! How dare you!


(Storms of crying gently)
Abe...sniff sniff....

Just kidding, you know Jimmy Carter, who has a foundation dedicated to destroying corruption is going to get impeached for corruption.

Your perception that the Republicans were always conservative is strange. Abe would have voted Democratic, or even Green, if he lived today.

And I see you are not unbiased...

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by The Red

No big update today I'm afraid folks, although it is on its way.

In the meantime I hope you can accept this humble interlude:

No rush, don't worry. Neat letter. Did you base that off of actual writings by Marx?

[The Red]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

No rush, don't worry. Neat letter. Did you base that off of actual writings by Marx?

Thanks, it's actually similar to a letter Marx wrote Abe in OTL, although this one will have a far greater impact on American politics.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Your perception that the Republicans were always conservative is strange. Abe would have voted Democratic, or even Green, if he lived today.

And I see you are not unbiased...

Seriously now, you killed conservatives and nobody cares.

I have a Watergate-ish scandal around Jimmy Carter and everybody calls me biased.
I'm just trying to make it realistic, seriously guys. It's not even election fraud, and if it was it would be like a senate or house seat, nothing we voted on.

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

I'm planning on Lincoln being impeached by a Democratic Congress when the war is at an close, letting Johnson in. That way I can keep Abe alive.

Originally Posted by The Red

Not to be a square but didn't the rules say that all the candidates have to die the same time as OTL?

I did have this clause in the rules: "Note that the presidents and VPs who died in OTL during their ATL period of service die at the same time as in OTL." I just took it out. The periods of service must still be the same as in the Master List. So you don't need to have Lincoln die on April 15, 1865, but he can't be president after then. Still, Blue, I'm not sure how the Democrats could dominate Congress at that point, nor do I know why they would impeach Lincoln.

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

Seriously now, you killed conservatives and nobody cares.

I have a Watergate-ish scandal around Jimmy Carter and everybody calls me biased.
I'm just trying to make it realistic, seriously guys. It's not even election fraud, and if it was it would be like a senate or house seat, nothing we voted on.

Hey, it was a logical reversal of OTL. The Christian left is probably strong in the Democratic Party.

Well, I'm not convinced. When you post it, and I see, I'll make my decision then.

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

Seriously now, you killed conservatives and nobody cares.

I have a Watergate-ish scandal around Jimmy Carter and everybody calls me biased.
I'm just trying to make it realistic, seriously guys. It's not even election fraud, and if it was it would be like a senate or house seat, nothing we voted on.

OK, I won't object (for now). Carter's not much of a Democrat anyway.

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

I did have this clause in the rules: "Note that the presidents and VPs who died in OTL during their ATL period of service die at the same time as in OTL." I just took it out. The periods of service must still be the same as in the Master List. So you don't need to have Lincoln die on April 15, 1865, but he can't be president after then. Still, Blue, I'm not sure how the Democrats could dominate Congress at that point, nor do I know why they would impeach Lincoln.

Its the Northern Democrats that dominates Congress, albeit, thanks to a far more lefty America, they're mostly OTL centrists and anti-slavers. Most are committed to the North winning, although not committed to abolishing slavery. The Republicans, when they retake Congress in 1866, will abolish slavery. Trust me, I need something to break the Democratic Party and leave them powerless for a long while. Impeaching Honest Abe is a surefire way.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

I did have this clause in the rules: "Note that the presidents and VPs who died in OTL during their ATL period of service die at the same time as in OTL." I just took it out. The periods of service must still be the same as in the Master List. So you don't need to have Lincoln die on April 15, 1865, but he can't be president after then. Still, Blue, I'm not sure how the Democrats could dominate Congress at that point, nor do I know why they would impeach Lincoln.

Okay, I thought you had removed that rule. Wasn't sure after Red mentioned it.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Hey, it was a logical reversal of OTL. The Christian left is probably strong in the Democratic Party.

Well, I'm not convinced. When you post it, and I see, I'll make my decision then.

It's not funny anymore. Just because I'm right-leaning doesn't mean I'm going to be biased.

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

It's not funny anymore. Just because I'm right-leaning doesn't mean I'm going to be biased.

Alright. I'm sorry.


As an conciliatory gift, the impeachment of Abe will break the Democratic Party, leading to a Republican hegemony until the Greenbacks appear.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Alright. I'm sorry.


As an conciliatory gift, the impeachment of Abe will break the Democratic Party, leading to a Republican hegemony until the Greenbacks appear.

It's ok, just realize that I am just going to be as fair as you.

You don't have to do that, Blue. Unless you just need that for your timeline to work.

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

It's ok, just realize that I am just going to be as fair as you.

You don't have to do that, Blue. Unless you just need that for your timeline to work.

O.K.

And yeah, I need that for my TL to work. Consider it a conciliatory gift as well.

[Nerdlinger]

Originally Posted by Turquoise Blue

Its the Northern Democrats that dominates Congress, albeit, thanks to a far more lefty America, they're mostly OTL centrists and anti-slavers. Most are committed to the North winning, although not committed to abolishing slavery. The Republicans, when they retake Congress in 1866, will abolish slavery. Trust me, I need something to break the Democratic Party and leave them powerless for a long while. Impeaching Honest Abe is a surefire way.

I would think the Civil War itself would do a fairly good job of breaking the Democrats. It did in OTL -- we didn't have a Democratic president until Cleveland, 20 years later. Plus, you don't need much to make the Democrats unpopular since they were never popular (at least outside the South) to begin with. The best performance by a pre-CW Democrat was Polk with a mere 21% of the vote.

And if the Democrats are ostensibly more progressive than in OTL, why would they impeach Lincoln after the war for abolishing slavery? I don't think they even would have done that in OTL after the war if they had enough seats in Congress.

[Van555]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

Seriously now, you killed conservatives and nobody cares.

I have a Watergate-ish scandal around Jimmy Carter and everybody calls me biased.
I'm just trying to make it realistic, seriously guys. It's not even election fraud, and if it was it would be like a senate or house seat, nothing we voted on.

You know you may have a point

[Turquoise Blue]

Originally Posted by Nerdlinger

I would think the Civil War itself would do a fairly good job of breaking the Democrats. It did in OTL -- we didn't have a Democratic president until Cleveland, 20 years later. Plus, you don't need much to make the Democrats unpopular since they were never popular (at least outside the South) to begin with. The best performance by a pre-CW Democrat was Polk with a mere 21% of the vote.

And if the Democrats are ostensibly more progressive than in OTL, why would they impeach Lincoln after the war for abolishing slavery? I don't think they even would have done that in OTL after the war if they had enough seats in Congress.

But the break is even more damaging then OTL. In ATL, we didn't have a Democratic president until Smith, 70 years later.

And, the Democratic South in 1856 shows they have made agreements with the Southern electors. The Civil War breaking out because of the South would make the Northern Democrats quite anti-Southern, but they are not progressive enough to consider abolishing slavery, and opposes Lincoln's proposal. When Lincoln announces he is running for a second term, and promises to abolish slavery, they make plans to impeach him and get a Democrat in the Blue House, Andrew Johnson. They finally do so ten days after Lincoln's second inauguration. This makes them very unpopular. Johnson is viewed by many as a "dictator". Johnson is technically president, but none apart from the now unpopular Democrats acknowledges the legality. Facing another split in the United States, Lincoln decides to officially resign on April 15, 1865, and that is what historians consider to be the real end to Lincoln's term and the start of Johnson's. Johnson's term is constrained by the fact that Republicans regained Congress a year after he is sworn in. Even his own party rejects him, and he gets the dubious fame of being the only president to achieve that position by what many consider a coup d'etat. John Wilkes Booth, a friend of Lincoln and co-creator of American Socialism, assassinates him in 1875. Johnson being so hated by many, Booth is not arrested for this.

Damn it, you made me reveal a lot of the timeline!

[metastasis_d]

I wonder what you have in store for us as to the cause of Lincoln's impeachment...