AHC: Help Create my alternate WW1 alliances

[SPJ]

Recently I've intrigued myself with the concept of having an alternate WW1 in which the major super powers are allied with eachother as follows

-Britian, Germany, Italy
-France, Russia, USA

Help me create a series of events that lead to these alliances and them waring with eachother. Not necesarily in that order.

I've left out other countries in my from these alliances so that other posters may suggest which way they would fall in this alliance set up.

Also I will allow pre-1900 PODs even though this is the post-1900 board. I posted it hear b/c I figured it would get more views form people that could help me.

[d32123]

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by d32123

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

Forgive me I should have explained my request more thoroughly. Look above I've edited it.

[Zuvarq]

Originally Posted by d32123

Having Britain support Germany in WW1 with a post 1900 PoD is ASB.

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

[anarchjoe]

Perhaps France could beat Prussia but due to it acting overbearing Bismark manages to unite Germany Britain then freaks out about France being overly strong putting Austria Hungary off another war. As for the others they're doable. U.S vs Britain, either trent affair gone wrong or ends up later in the war which seems less likely. Though I'm not sure how you keep Austria Hungary out

[d32123]

Originally Posted by Zuvarq

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

Having similar ideologies does not make different peoples blood brothers, especially back in those days, nor would a dramatic ideological shift break alliances that easily. Britain supported France over Germany for reasons that are pretty hard to butterfly without a far back PoD, and I don't think any of those nations going communist is going to change anything.

[Tocomocho]

1) No Spanish-American War. This leaves the USA still seeking for some target where to flex its muscles and demand its place in the world.

2) A deeper Fachoda crisis damages Franco-British relations enough to prevent the Entente Cordiale.

3) A (maybe slightly earlier) Russo-Japanese War drags France and Britain in and against each other. Germany and Italy oportunistically support Britain and some weird thing happens that makes the Ottomans jump in as well. The USA decides to flex its muscles and demand its place in the world by invading Canada (something that was considered IOTL, perhaps foolishly, as late as the 1890s). Bottom line: World War before 1910.

[Flying Dutchman]

I think an Anglo-German alliance could have been possible is Wilhelm II and his government didn't do just about everything they could to push Britain and France in eachothers arms. Relations between France and Britain had been cold since Fashoda and 500+ years of animosity, while France's ally Russia and Britain where engaged in the 'Great Game' in central Asia.

Stop Wilhelms excesses (no Algeciras, a smaller fleet buildup) and Britain might just have looked for Germany as a potential continental ally.

Having the USA joining the French alliance would be quite difficult. Only thing I can think of is that Britain and Germany start a full blockade of continental Europe, or start commandeering US ships. Still, given the horrific state of the US standing army and a likely British presence in Canada, I doubt the US would jump into a war unprepared.

[tallthinkev]

Britian and her Empire.
Germany.
Russia.
Because of they are part of the same family. (needs to be closer, of course, could be because of Queen Victoria told them to be. And an earlier POD).
Also maybe Belgium and the Netherlands.

France.
Ottoman Empire.
Poland.
(don't know what Spain or Japan would be upto)

The US will try to stay out of the whole thing.

As for Italy, only if they can something for themselves.

[yourworstnightmare]

If Friedrich III had survived Germany would have moved closer to Britain. I see no Austria- Hungary there, so they are possibly neutral?

[Awilla the Hun]

Originally Posted by Zuvarq

Not necessarily. What if France goes communist? Or Britain and Germany both go communist?

No one's going communist without the massive disruption of the Great War. And it was not as ideological age as it was post war.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by anarchjoe

Perhaps France could beat Prussia but due to it acting overbearing Bismark manages to unite Germany Britain then freaks out about France being overly strong putting Austria Hungary off another war. As for the others they're doable. U.S vs Britain, either trent affair gone wrong or ends up later in the war which seems less likely. Though I'm not sure how you keep Austria Hungary out

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

If Friedrich III had survived Germany would have moved closer to Britain. I see no Austria- Hungary there, so they are possibly neutral?

No in my OP I stated that I was only listing the major superpowers in the war and who there allies are. I didn't set up any alliances with the smaller countries like Austrio-Hungery b/c I thought leaving them out for now would allow creating the alliances listed easier.

Also I had concieved creating a POD in which Whilhelm dies in 1883 leaving Frederick III to rule for the next 5 years or more if I can give him better medical treatment than in OTL.

Also I plan on creating a more powerful Russia by postponing the death of Alexander II and preventing the death of Nicholas Alexandrovich who will become Tsar after Alex's death.

Originally Posted by tallthinkev

Britian and her Empire.
Germany.
Russia.
Because of they are part of the same family. (needs to be closer, of course, could be because of Queen Victoria told them to be. And an earlier POD).
Also maybe Belgium and the Netherlands.

France.
Ottoman Empire.
Poland.
(don't know what Spain or Japan would be upto)

The US will try to stay out of the whole thing.

As for Italy, only if they can something for themselves.

Thats not what I'm asking for though. Also how would France ally with the Ottomans?

[Easterling]

This is not very probable, I admit, but still:
The Russo-Japanese war escalates and both Britain and Germany gang up on Russia. At the same time, president Roosevelt worried by the growing power of Japan in the Pacific promises to help Russia and gets the USA to attack Russia's enemies.
If you think that it's implausible for the USA of that time to be in a binding alliance with Russia or any other power, remember that your scenario pretty much requires the Americans to join the war right at the beginning, because otherwise there is no way for France and Russia to survive even one year alone against the opposing coalition.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by Easterling

This is not very probable, I admit, but still:
The Russo-Japanese war escalates and both Britain and Germany gang up on Russia. At the same time, president Roosevelt worried by the growing power of Japan in the Pacific promises to help Russia and gets the USA to attack Russia's enemies.
If you think that it's implausible for the USA of that time to be in a binding alliance with Russia or any other power, remember that your scenario pretty much requires the Americans to join the war right at the beginning, because otherwise there is no way for France and Russia to survive even one year alone against the opposing coalition.

Thanks, I'll add though that I don't have a set plan on who joins the war when. Britian could join the war later on if you think its needed so thatthe war is initially between Germany and Russia-France.

Also I've considered changing the history between France and Germany. I'd do this by either making the Franco-Prussian war a modest loss for France instead of a devestating one which leads to Britian seeing it as a greater threat than OTL. Or by having the Schnaebele Affair lead to a 2nd Franco-German war in which Britian sympathizes with Germany.

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

If Friedrich III had survived Germany would have moved closer to Britain. I see no Austria- Hungary there, so they are possibly neutral?

How might Frederich have changed the advancement of the German Navy from OTL since Britian saw the growth of Germany's navy as a threat in OTL?

[Awilla the Hun]

I'm not so sure about that, Easterling. Without assurance of British support, the French army may adopt a defensive warplan which enables them to survive the German onslaught, as well as whatever BEF the British can throw in and Italian pressure (what little they can muster.) Maybe not for long, but beyond a year. And without Austria-Hungary on the German side, the Russians will be able to make more progress on the Eastern Front. After a year of course, unless the Russians capture Berlin, everything goes downhill as the French run short of supplies due to the Anglo-German blockade, the USA still haven't sufficiently mobilised to pose a major naval threat, and the British grind into gear with the TA and Kitchener's Army.

I would agree with your analysis on how to get the Germans and British together. (EDIT: this, however, would be difficult in practice, as the Anglo-Japanese alliance was explicitly written to be an anti-Franco Russian affair only. When war broke out, the OTL French and British moved closer to detente. But, of course, things could have gone differently.) The Italians, fearful of the Royal Naval threat in the Mediterranean, would be more likely to stay on side with the Germans in this scenario. The Ottomans, however, may be more difficult; an alliance with Britain means that the British faction retains some strength, and therefore the pro-Germans may have less support for madcap schemes to go out and forge an Empire. (Or this could be me misreading how the Ottomans went to war. If it was, ignore me.)

The USA are more difficult to get involved. There was still a strong isolationist element, and I know little about them in this period.

[Easterling]

In that case you might want want to have Britain join the war after the USA. It makes it easier for the US president to "sell" the war to the people, if he doesn't have to advocate attacking both Germany and Britain.

[David S Poepoe]

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

If Friedrich III had survived Germany would have moved closer to Britain. I see no Austria- Hungary there, so they are possibly neutral?

A popular POD and firmly rooted in fiction.

[SPJ]

Is there any way to have, Belgium, Portugal, or Brazil side with the Allies in this war even though they have historical loyalties to Britain?

[Easterling]

Originally Posted by SPJ

Is there any way to have, Belgium, Portugal, or Brazil side with the Allies in this war even though they have historical loyalties to Britain?

Belgium: If Britain trows Belgium under the bus and allows the Germans to carry out the Schlieffen plan, the Belgians might not take it well
Portugal: colonial disputes, perhaps
Brazil: If the US diplomacy does a good job. Or if Anglo-German naval actions disrupt their trade.

[SPJ]

Originally Posted by Easterling

Belgium: If Britain trows Belgium under the bus and allows the Germans to carry out the Schlieffen plan, the Belgians might not take it well
Portugal: colonial disputes, perhaps
Brazil: If the US diplomacy does a good job. Or if Anglo-German naval actions disrupt their trade.

Maybe in the case of Belgium but I've had another poster tell me that in this situation it would side with the CPs just b/c Belgium would figure France couldn't protect it easily enough. Do you know any way around that. Also what colonial disputes could Portugal have with Britian that make it decide to side with the Allies after 1900. I figure things would have been settled after Britian refused to endorse Portugals "Pink Map" during the Berlin Congo Conference.