WI: An Even Broader Holocaust

[Armored Diplomacy]

Suppose Hitler had genocidal views against not just Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals, but on all non-Germans. This can be done by making him many times more fanatical in his beliefs of German racial superiority, many times more bitter over the way Germany was treated after World War I, and get him to look down on all other peoples, even white people, as inferior and deserving of extermination.

So let's say that Hitler's plan involves not just conquering Europe (and later the world), but exterminating it and making it Aryan-only. So more concentration camps are built, and everyone who is not German is sent there. That includes Allied POWs. Across Europe, and in Russia and North Africa, there is full-on genocide against everyone. The Nazis attempt to hide it as best they can, especially from their allies, but when Italy is occupied, the Germans go genocidal on the local population as well.

So the Germans carry out a total scorched-earth policy, raping, burning, and killing as they advance. Entire towns and villages are depopulated and burned or razed. Cities are burned and depopulated, with their population shipped to concentration camps where most are gassed immediately on arrival, and some being chosen for work before being killed (similar to Treblinka).

So what are the effects of Hitler being even more batshit crazy than he was?

[sharlin]

RE: Towns and villages depopulated and destroyed... Western Russian the the Ukraine say hello.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by sharlin

RE: Towns and villages depopulated and destroyed... Western Russian the the Ukraine say hello.

I meant all over Europe and North Africa too. And in this case, the Russians and Ukrainians of those towns end up in concentration camps.

[sharlin]

The Germans were much more efficient, instead of building a camp they tended to gun down people. If you want an example of the Nazi's at their very very worst have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

And if this nightmare scinario did happen you'd probably have the US step into the war very early on as the Germans would be killing the population of France, norway, Denmark etc as well. And I don't think his Generals would all go along with it. Hell I hope they wouldn't.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by sharlin

The Germans were much more efficient, instead of building a camp they tended to gun down people. If you want an example of the Nazi's at their very very worst have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

And if this nightmare scinario did happen you'd probably have the US step into the war very early on as the Germans would be killing the population of France, norway, Denmark etc as well. And I don't think his Generals would all go along with it. Hell I hope they wouldn't.

What I really wonder is how Germany would have been treated after the war. Suppose the death toll was at around 20 million in Western Europe and North Africa alone, and millions, or tens of millions more Russian civilians died than in OTL.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

Suppose Hitler had genocidal views against not just Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals, but on all non-Germans. This can be done by making him many times more fanatical in his beliefs of German racial superiority, many times more bitter over the way Germany was treated after World War I, and get him to look down on all other peoples, even white people, as inferior and deserving of extermination.

So let's say that Hitler's plan involves not just conquering Europe (and later the world), but exterminating it and making it Aryan-only. So more concentration camps are built, and everyone who is not German is sent there. That includes Allied POWs. Across Europe, and in Russia and North Africa, there is full-on genocide against everyone. The Nazis attempt to hide it as best they can, especially from their allies, but when Italy is occupied, the Germans go genocidal on the local population as well.

So the Germans carry out a total scorched-earth policy, raping, burning, and killing as they advance. Entire towns and villages are depopulated and burned or razed. Cities are burned and depopulated, with their population shipped to concentration camps where most are gassed immediately on arrival, and some being chosen for work before being killed (similar to Treblinka).

So what are the effects of Hitler being even more batshit crazy than he was?

Very silly scenario.

If Nazism did that then they face the whole world from the first day of the war. They have no Allies, no collaborators no one trades with them, no oil, no iron ore and even Sweden joins the war against them.

[sharlin]

Then the plan to reduce Germany to a pre-industrial state would have probably gone ahead. There wouldn't be a Germany any more.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Very silly scenario.

If Nazism did that then they face the whole world from the first day of the war. They have no Allies, no collaborators no one trades with them, no oil, no iron ore and even Sweden joins the war against them.

Like I said, they try to hide it. There were reports of the Holocaust coming out throughout WWII, but not that many people really knew the full extent of it until the camps were liberated.

Overall, the Nazis can make it seem that they only do this to conquered countries. This will make countries want to stay neutral, though invaded countries will fight even harder than they did.

[sharlin]

It would terrify the globe. As Devolved rightly said you'd have no on trading with them, no one would want to touch germany with a shitty stick.
And you'd not be able to hide the extermination of an entire nations population let alone half a dozen. Also the Germans would be shooting themselves in the foot as well. They came to rely on slave labour for many things, in this insanity they would be exterminating their workforce.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

Like I said, they try to hide it. There were reports of the Holocaust coming out throughout WWII, but not that many people really knew the full extent of it until the camps were liberated.

Overall, the Nazis can make it seem that they only do this to conquered countries. This will make countries want to stay neutral, though invaded countries will fight even harder than they did.

It would be noticed if the Nazis were KILLING EVERYONE.

[mattep74]

CalBears story comes to mind how the war would end for the Germans

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by Devolved

It would be noticed if the Nazis were KILLING EVERYONE.

Which would make neutral countries very nervous and hopeful that the Germans would leave them alone.

And I never said the Holocaust went unnoticed. But nobody really knew the full extent of the horrors of what was happening until the camps were liberated.

If the Nazis tried to cover it up as best as they could, there would be lots of reports, but not piles of them. Enough to make other countries nervous, however.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by mattep74

CalBears story comes to mind how the war would end for the Germans

How did it end for them in that scenario?

[sharlin]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

Which would make neutral countries very nervous and hopeful that the Germans would leave them alone.
.

*not sure if you're trying to make this seem like a good thing and another case of 'yay nazi's hurrah!' or not....*

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by sharlin

*not sure if you're trying to make this seem like a good thing and another case of 'yay nazi's hurrah!' or not....*

What? I was stating that the countries who were not yet invaded, like Sweden, would not immediately enter the war, as Devolved suggested. Rather, they would do whatever they could to prevent invasion, but they would fight tooth and nail when attacked.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

Which would make neutral countries very nervous and hopeful that the Germans would leave them alone.

And I never said the Holocaust went unnoticed. But nobody really knew the full extent of the horrors of what was happening until the camps were liberated.

If the Nazis tried to cover it up as best as they could, there would be lots of reports, but not piles of them. Enough to make other countries nervous, however.

Covering up the extermination of a minority group is different from killing everyone.

Neutrals were still travelling in Europe and would have said if EVERYONE was being murdered. The Red Cross would know if ALL THE PRISONERS were being killed.

I get the impression that your thoughts on this are as deep as your music thread.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Covering up the extermination of a minority group is different from killing everyone.

Neutrals were still travelling in Europe and would have said if EVERYONE was being murdered. The Red Cross would know if ALL THE PRISONERS were being killed.

I get the impression that your thoughts on this are as deep as your music thread.

Yes, there would be tons of reports, and the Allies would have a basic knowledge that the Nazis were murdering and pillaging on a massive scale. But the true extent of this would not be understood until the Allies began liberating Europe.

[sharlin]

Okay now you're assuming the whole world is snorting paint thinner.

*Le swedish red cross official in his office*

"Hmm...the eight teams we've sent to monitor the Germans prisoners of war have not reported back in *X MONTHS* I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuure nothing's wrong."

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by sharlin

Okay now you're assuming the whole world is snorting paint thinner.

*Le swedish red cross official in his office*

"Hmm...the eight teams we've sent to monitor the Germans prisoners of war have not reported back in *X MONTHS* I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuure nothing's wrong."

Yeah, I concede there.

Like I said, the world would have understood there were mass atrocities going on. They would definitely know about the killing of prisoners. But I'm unsure if they would have known the full extent of it until Europe was liberated.

[sharlin]

Nope but still its basically what you're asking the world to do. Be utterly blind. And unless hitler had some kind of Nazi mind control gas there's a darn good chance that the Germans would not go along with this unmitigated slaughter. Its bad enough what happened in the Holocaust but this 'suggestion' makes it seem like a minor thing.