German peace offer after Battle of France

[33k7]

Okay this is my first post
I just wanted some opinions on this idea


The year is July 17, 1940

After the Battle of France Germany offers peace terms to the Allies in exchange for former German colonies and them officially recognizing Germany's control over Poland

In exchange they will pull all forces out of Luxembourg Netherlands Belgium and France and cease all hostilities with the nations.

So how you think it would play out

And if you can Think of a counteroffer to their proposal please post it

[Armored Diplomacy]

I don't think Churchill would accept such a thing. In OTL, he rejected a peace offer from Hitler whereas Britain is left alone and has its empire untouched, and remains a superpower.

[Dan Reilly The Great]

Well, if we somehow get passed the idea that Hitler at this point is at his "I am unstoppable" phase and is willing to make any kind of concessions to anyone(mind you he hadn't decided to scrap the idea of Sealion until after the failure of the Luftwaffe to achieve its goals in the Battle of Britain), then there is still the dubious prospect of the British being willing to accept any kind of offer from a Germany that has broken every agreement it has signed up to this point.

Originally Posted by 33k7

And if you can Think of a counteroffer to their proposal please post it

Perhaps a picture of Winston Churchill mooning the camera, beyond that, a simple note stating "sod off" comes to mind.

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

I don't think Churchill would accept such a thing. In OTL, he rejected a peace offer from Hitler whereas Britain is left alone and has its empire untouched, and remains a superpower.

What about the other four countries Belgium the Netherlands Luxembourg and France

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Dan Reilly The Great

Well, if we somehow get passed the idea that Hitler at this point is at his "I am unstoppable" phase and is willing to make any kind of concessions to anyone(mind you he hadn't decided to scrap the idea of Sealion until after the failure of the Luftwaffe to achieve its goals in the Battle of Britain), then there is still the dubious prospect of the British being willing to accept any kind of offer from a Germany that has broken every agreement it has signed up to this point.



Perhaps a picture of Winston Churchill mooning the camera, beyond that, a simple note stating "sod off" comes to mind.

the Battle of France lasted less than three months 46 days very minimum damage to both sides infrastructure at its highest casualties on both sides to be a little over 517,000 military casualties
Keep in mind the rest of Europe is in shock of what just happened in France

Winston Churchill wants to be prime minister right is his political opponents going to let him dictate Britain's entire future because the question of if Britain could win the war by itself was probably at a all time low
for the British people

[GarethC]

Originally Posted by 33k7

...The year is July 17, 1940

After the Battle of France Germany offers peace terms to the Allies in exchange for former German colonies and them officially recognizing Germany's control over Poland

In exchange they will pull all forces out of Luxembourg Netherlands Belgium and France and cease all hostilities with the nations.

So how you think it would play out

And if you can Think of a counteroffer to their proposal please post it

I think if Hitler really pressed ahead with this, he would have a nasty shaving accident at the hands of some regretful members of his own party.

Churchill would decline this offer, and his counteroffer would be along the lines of the response given in Arkell vs Pressdram Ltd..

Given that Pétain accepted a much harsher outcome, I am certain France and the Benelux countries would leap at this offer. France would then start re-arming like there was no tomorrow. If France has not gone back to war with Germany by September (more likely they wait until spring '41) then Paris will probably respond more robustly than in the OTL to any Japanese incursion into l'Indochine, probably with British and Dutch aid. However, the German colonies weren't occupied by France, and so wouldn't have been returned.

Mussolini would look at the map of North Africa and despair, start painting Libya, Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland pink, and ask someone to find out what the pension arrangements are for former dictators, as he's about to retire to obscurity in Firenze, maybe opening an ice cream shop.

Stalin would... probably believe Richard Sorge next year. And as soon as Barbarossa is launched, France will declare war on Germany again and try out its new doctrine of guerre d'éclair.

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by 33k7

What about the other four countries Belgium the Netherlands Luxembourg and France

They are German-occupied and in no position to make policy. They can't accept or reject anything. The choice was solely Britain's.

[33k7]

Originally Posted by GarethC

I think if Hitler really pressed ahead with this, he would have a nasty shaving accident at the hands of some regretful members of his own party.

Churchill would decline this offer, and his counteroffer would be along the lines of the response given in Arkell vs Pressdram Ltd..

Given that Pétain accepted a much harsher outcome, I am certain France and the Benelux countries would leap at this offer. France would then start re-arming like there was no tomorrow. If France has not gone back to war with Germany by September (more likely they wait until spring '41) then Paris will probably respond more robustly than in the OTL to any Japanese incursion into l'Indochine, probably with British and Dutch aid. However, the German colonies weren't occupied by France, and so wouldn't have been returned.

Mussolini would look at the map of North Africa and despair, start painting Libya, Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland pink, and ask someone to find out what the pension arrangements are for former dictators, as he's about to retire to obscurity in Firenze, maybe opening an ice cream shop.

Stalin would... probably believe Richard Sorge next year. And as soon as Barbarossa is launched, France will declare war on Germany again and try out its new doctrine of guerre d'éclair.

he peace treaty Would hang on mostly the British because they controlled most of Germany's former colonies if Britain walks away

Germany would counteroffer then France would give up all of its colonial empire in northwest Africa to have its freedom


Belgium and the Netherlands would be a mixed bag Germany could demand its colonies and then give them over to some foreign power like Franco gets the Congo/Zaire and maybe the rest of Morocco if he forces the British out of Gibraltar even though the Spanish Civil War did just get over a little over a year ago this would be tempting offer

Japan gets Indonesia if it declares war on the Soviets

Hopefully building stronger alliances

now to your French belief Please turn your attention to the Attack on Mers-el-Kébir resulting in the deaths of 1,297 French servicemen the French would not be happy about this and Second Armistice at Compiègne would be different in this world mind you the France would probably already know a peace treaty was coming or at least being made aware of it at the meeting

you have to remember that the British and French declared war first the French people might not want to be so trigger-happy due to most of their
army being stripped of all of its equipment at least in the north the treaty itself is just a starting point no one is talking about the 1,900,000 allied soldiers that are now POWs

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

They are German-occupied and in no position to make policy. They can't accept or reject anything. The choice was solely Britain's.

Belgium and the Netherlands government in exile

Leopold III of Belgium was in German custody the prime minister of Belgium was in London and could easily be branded a coward Leopold III of Belgium had more power at this point he could make a peace treaty

Dirk Jan de Geer the prime minister of the Netherlands wanted to make peace with the Nazis so at this point so it probably would've happened

France government was still hanging around Philippe Pétain was still the acting prime minister and would accept the offer

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by 33k7

Belgium and the Netherlands government in exile

Leopold III of Belgium was in German custody the prime minister of Belgium was in London and could easily be branded a coward Leopold III of Belgium had more power at this point he could make a peace treaty

Dirk Jan de Geer the prime minister of the Netherlands wanted to make peace with the Nazis so at this point so it probably would've happened

France government was still hanging around Philippe Pétain was still the acting prime minister and would accept the offer

It doesn't matter what they accepted. They were just former leaders in hiding, and had no more control over any territory or military force. Britain had the final say.

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

It doesn't matter what they accepted. They were just former leaders in hiding, and had no more control over any territory or military force. Britain had the final say.

The British did not become overlord of all of Western Europe and what they say does matter their soldiers will listen to them their families live in these countries there not putting their lives in jeopardy because of some British pride and foolishness

And you're leading to the inevitable conclusion of this Britain drives a major wedge between them and France Belgium and the Netherlands if they think they can tell them what to do you might have the French soldiers that were evacuated from Dunkirk become a major problem in Britain if the British government thinks they can Dictate the future of the French people

[Richter von Manthofen]

I believe Germany would have wanted to make peace - even without giving back the colonies (the colonies would have been more of a bureden than an asset.

But Churchill would NEVER have "given up" - so you have the butterfly a bulldog away first abd then you could make peace - maybe (maybe becase of all the broken - by Germany - agreements.

After Sept. 1st 1939 it was "them or us" - summer 1940 it was almost "us" - but only almost.

(Stronger UK peace faction)

[Armored Diplomacy]

Originally Posted by 33k7

The British did not become overlord of all of Western Europe and what they say does matter their soldiers will listen to them their families live in these countries there not putting their lives in jeopardy because of some British pride and foolishness

And you're leading to the inevitable conclusion of this Britain drives a major wedge between them and France Belgium and the Netherlands if they think they can tell them what to do you might have the French soldiers that were evacuated from Dunkirk become a major problem in Britain if the British government thinks they can Dictate the future of the French people

All Britain has to do is keep fighting, and they can torpedo any of Hitler's offers. He will not withdraw from these countries if the British are still in the game.

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Richter von Manthofen

I believe Germany would have wanted to make peace - even without giving back the colonies (the colonies would have been more of a bureden than an asset.

But Churchill would NEVER have "given up" - so you have the butterfly a bulldog away first abd then you could make peace - maybe (maybe becase of all the broken - by Germany - agreements.

After Sept. 1st 1939 it was "them or us" - summer 1940 it was almost "us" - but only almost.

(Stronger UK peace faction)

The goal of the treaty was to drive a wedge between the British and France Belgium and the Netherlands

The British Attack on Mers-el-Kébir at this point would be to placing a of a nail and Britain's refusal of the treaty would be hammering a nail into the coffin of Britain's foreign relations with its European allies

[33k7]

Originally Posted by Peter Parker

All Britain has to do is keep fighting, and they can torpedo any of Hitler's offers. He will not withdraw from these countries if the British are still in the game.

Germany can't do anything about what the British do in ocean but on the land they can dictate everything

how will Britain look to its allies if it abandons their allies and forcing them to give away much more for their freedom the purpose of this treaty itself was to drive a wedge between Britain and its Western European allies the French were just attacked in the Attack on Mers-el-Kébir by the British

Germany didn't need to concentrate on building a Navy it needed to concentrate building alliances and its ground forces the only thing it really needed in the ocean where its submarines to make Britain's life a living hell targeting any ship that will have the British flag on it

[b12ox]

Germans wold not be happy to give up what they conquered solely because they needed the loot and they wanted to turn the industry of France and all of Europe for the war effort in the east, likewise to fight the English and possibly Americans in the future. The fate of France and Norway and the rest was to be sealed for years to come. They could not force all to fill in the ranks in the Werhmacht but who knows what may have happened if they drew a stalemate with the Soviet Union. and permament sacrifice was needed to be paid with blood tax. But the main thing is the werhmcht was underequipped for the war with the Soviets and all they could get from the new additions was to be had.

The word peace by diplomatic means was meaningless in 1940. It would have had to be supported with somehing more substanstial than a signature and there was nothing the germans could have done to apease the English in 1940.

[MattII]

The British will agree only when hell freezes over. As for a counter offer, full retreat from all occupied areas, breaking down their army to Versailles levels, and handing over the heads of all the Nazis on a silver plate would probably be a good start.

[Lemon flavoured]

Originally Posted by GarethC

Churchill would decline this offer, and his counteroffer would be along the lines of the response given in Arkell vs Pressdram Ltd..

Nice reference, and I agree entirely.

[thevaliant]

Originally Posted by 33k7

The year is July 17, 1940

After the Battle of France Germany offers peace terms to the Allies in exchange for former German colonies and them officially recognizing Germany's control over Poland

In exchange they will pull all forces out of Luxembourg Netherlands Belgium and France and cease all hostilities with the nations.

So how you think it would play out

And if you can Think of a counteroffer to their proposal please post it

The counter offer from Churchill will be:

No, you're not getting your colonies back.
Add Norway AND Poland to that list.

Maybe, just maybe we can do a deal, but push it and I'll add the requirement that Cze and Denmark are freed after all.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by 33k7

July 17, 1940

After the Battle of France Germany offers peace terms to the Allies in exchange for former German colonies and them officially recognizing Germany's control over Poland

In exchange they will pull all forces out of Luxembourg Netherlands Belgium and France and cease all hostilities with the nations.

Hitler making such a proposal is about as likely as him learning the violin in order to provide free entertainment at Bar Mitzvahs.

Hitler had just achieved for the German Volk and Reich that which was their racial destiny but which had been denied them for far too long: hegemony in continental Europe. The decadent democracies had crumbled under the onslaught of Nazi Germany and had collapsed in far less time, and at far less cost in blood than had ever been envisioned, further underlining the natural racial and moral superiority of Nazi Germany.

In July 1940 the war was over. A new order had been established in Europe, one that with a firm hand would guarantee ongoing peace, free from the conspiring of Jews and International Bolshevism. The English had been thoroughly beaten; they’d abandoned an entire army’s worth of equipment on the beaches of Dunkirk and fled back to their island. It would only be a short time until they saw reason and asked for peace. If the drunkard Churchill and the warmongering clique surrounding him weren’t willing to see reason then other, more reasonable people would be sure to assume the reins of power and send emissaries to Berlin seeking a place in the New European Order.

And if they didn’t, well then England Goering’s Luftwaffe would simply crush them, just as it had crushed the rest of Europe, or the Kriegsmarine would starve them into submission. Either way, it would be the English coming with cap in hand offering up colonies and trade deals in exchange for peace, not the Master of Europe.