Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 15th, 2012, 02:44 AM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Asante Soldiers March Through London, a TL {Thanks XanXar!}

So I had this idea...

More of a yearning. I dream to create a plausible TL where a sub-Saharan state in Africa {not the Boers} can become a major power. Realistically, Ethiopia is the major choice but I like the Asante Empire better, so I'm going to choose them. There's going to be two POD's for this: A French victory in the Franco-Prussian War and the death of King Leopold II. My reasons for choosing these events as POD's are explained in the second page of this thread, but basically changing these two events would greatly change the history of Africa. This story is going to focus heavily on the Asante country, I only plan to discuss Europe in passing or as it pertains to Asante. I'll focus even less so on the other continents.

Updates will depend greatly on mood. So keep that in mind. Hopefully I can do a good job at this since I've never actually written a non-ASB TL here {except for the one which Shall Not Be Named}.

The actual story will be in a separate post. Without any further ado...

Last edited by Kooluk Swordsman; June 15th, 2012 at 06:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 15th, 2012, 04:27 AM
Ganesha Ganesha is offline
શિવા બાળક
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 1000 or more
Really looking forward to this!

Cheers,
Ganesha
__________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.” Aldous Huxley
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 15th, 2012, 04:54 AM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
PRUSSIA DEFEATED. THROWN BACK TO THE RHINE.
FRENCH TROOPS OCCUPY THE SAARLAND

"Although the Prussians made spectacular gains in the opening phases of the war, a strong French counterattack led by Napoleon III halted the offensive. An offensive in the following month managed to encircle the Prussian Second Army and destroy it, netting tens of thousands of prisoners. The next French offensive, as we know, broke the back of the Prussians in France..."

"The complete defeat of the Prussians was inevitable. They, up until that point, had only faced crumbling states and weak powers in the east. They had never faced a true force like France..."
-Napoleon III

The French terms would not be easy on Prussia. First would be the matter of the Saarland, and reparations, and other limitations. Prussia would not accept these terms forever, and years later more blood would be shed in Europe. It is sometimes speculated how history would have been different had the Prussians won the war, although the Franco-Prussian War is generally overshadowed by the larger wars of the 20th century. What not many Western historians take note of, however, is what was going on in Africa, even though events here would have far-reaching, if more subtle, implications...

KUMASI {Capital of the Asante Empire}, 1872

"But they have taken territories that rightfully belong to us! They treat us as if we were some backwards tribe in the north, and you advise me to ignore them?"

Abeeku Enam did not so much as bat an eye at the anger of the Asantehene. He knew that there would be anger at his words; no reasonable ruler could not express anger. But Enam was confident in his counsel.

"The Ministry of War[1] are in agreement with us. We're not ready for another confrontation with the British."

Upon his Golden Stool[2], the Asantehene lowered his head, whether he was deep in thought or trying to contain his rage Enam could not say. This was not the first time the British had encroached on Asante lands, nor would it be the last. But the previous war had ended in a bloody stalemate, and the Ministry of Foreign Relations did not think another one would end up much better. Enam, the highest ranked person of the Ministry of Foreign relations, decided to relay this council personally. Hopefully this would show the Asantehene how serious the situation was; a few parcels of land was not worth the war that would surely destroy the Empire.

"Have the Elders been made aware of this council? That you would have us avoid war?"

Elam cringed slightly, but did his best to conceal the fact. "Yes my lord. They feel that... they assume that we can beat the British, but they do not know-"

"Enough" the Asante said quietly but firmly, standing up from his Golden Stool. "The Elders have given their council, and they agree that war is the only option. We will mobilize our forces and prepare to drive the British out along with their Fante dogs. We will not repeat the same mistakes as the last war." And with that, the meeting was over.

Elam left the Asantehene's throne room and prepared for the travel back to the Ministry of Foreign Relations; perhaps there was still time to find a diplomatic solution to this mess. If only the damned Dutch hadn't been so cowardly and traded those forts to the British, this entire thing could have been avoided[3]. As it was now, the Empire wanted nothing more than to drive the Fante out and reclaim what was legally theirs, but that would bring their British allies into the fight. A two-on-one fight was bad in itself, but when one of those opponents had ships that could level villages and cities, it was no longer a fight.

Taking his time, Elam observed his city of Kumasi, bustling in the heat of summer. Children ran the streets laughing while merchants peddled their wares. Soldiers armed with the latest[4] guns from the Dutch marched to-and-fro in a manner chaotic to those who were not knowledgeable of military matters. Everywhere, talk of Fante and the British was on everyone's lips.Elam could only sigh inwardly as most of the people exclaimed supreme confidence in their army. If only they knew what awaited them when war came, it would not be the sweeping victory of the first war, not even the noble stalemate of the second. This would be a complete and utter catastrophe, and Elam doubted his state could survive.

Around half-an-hour later, Elam strolled into the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to try and create peace out of war. An aid quickly rushed to him and said excitedly "Sir, there's someone from Europe here to see you."

Cursing inwardly, Elam hurried to his office, where a European -of some rank by his dress- stood up from where he was sitting and offered him a handshake, which Elam accepted. "Charles Summers. I'm representing the United Kingdom of Great Britain. My country wishes to discuss the Gold Coast situation before it gets out of hand. Are you free to speak now?"

Taking great pain to conceal his shock and relief, Elam nodded. "I was just getting ready to leave, but I have a few moments -ah, please sit. Now, let's talk about this before our soldiers start marching shall we?"

---

[1] The Asante Empire had a very sophisticated bureaucracy, with separate ministries for war and foreign relations.

[2] The Golden Stool is the symbol of the Asante "monarchy" and state. Like the Crown is in England.

[3] Info on this event is here, but basically the Dutch and U.K traded some forts and land around the Gold Coast. Trouble was that the Asante legally owned the lands the Dutch traded away {the Dutch even paid them tribute to put forts there}. So when the Dutch gave them to the Brits and Fante {Britain's African allies}, the Asante were not happy.

[4] As European guns became more sophisticated, they traded their obsolete guns to non-European states in return for other products. While most of these African states thought they were getting the latest guns, the Europeans knew better. Likely wasn't done maliciously, it's just good business to sell something you no longer needed.


So, how am I doing so far? Questions, comments, thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 15th, 2012, 05:23 AM
NikoZnate NikoZnate is offline
Is not actually named "Niko".
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 669
Another good African TL? I already spend too much time on here as it is Promising work so far!
__________________
The Turtledove-winning (Best New Ancient TL 2012!) Realm of Millions of Years is my main project. Feel free to ask me about ancient Egypt.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 15th, 2012, 08:48 AM
Jonathan Edelstein Jonathan Edelstein is offline
Rooted Cosmopolitan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 1000 or more
Nice one. I particularly like the title.

The Asante are a good choice - a strong and sophisticated state which kicked Britain's butt a few times in OTL. You also seem to be headed toward a negotiated settlement that will prevent the Third Anglo-Asante War and give the empire some breathing space to modernize. I assume there will be some kind of face-saving compromise on the coastal forts, possibly a British recognition of nominal Asante sovereignty and trading rights while Britain retains military control (at least for the time being).

On the other hand, I'm not sure that a loss in the Franco-Prussian War would keep France out of Africa. France already had a coastal presence, and its inland expansion policies were already under way in the 1850s and 60s, driven by governors and military officers like Faidherbe. Local colonial officials would often expand without orders from Paris, and as long as they did so without too much cost in men and money, I don't see that the French government would actually stop them. Not to mention that France had already come into conflict with inland powers by this time (Umar Tall declared jihad against them in the 1850s) which might drag them into the interior whether or not they want to go there.

It may be possible, though, to get to your desired result by another route. Britain liked to ally with the second most powerful continental country against the most powerful one, and if France won in 1870, it would be the country that Britain wanted to take down a peg. If so, then it would want to stop French expansion in Africa as well as Europe, and given that the British army of the time was somewhat overstretched, it would need local allies. The Asante are perfectly positioned to act as a check against French expansion in Cote d'Ivoire and Dahomey, so Britain might arm and support them.

Anyway, count me interested. I'll be interested to see where you take this - a fully traditional Asante state or a hybrid Christianized one (I tend to think the latter is more likely but your mileage may vary).
__________________
Jonathan Edelstein

"Who is wise? He who learns from all." -- Ben Zoma, Pirkei Avot 4:1
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 15th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Edelstein View Post
... I'm not sure that a loss in the Franco-Prussian War would keep France out of Africa. France already had a coastal presence, and its inland expansion policies were already under way in the 1850s and 60s, driven by governors and military officers like Faidherbe. Local colonial officials would often expand without orders from Paris, and as long as they did so without too much cost in men and money, I don't see that the French government would actually stop them. Not to mention that France had already come into conflict with inland powers by this time (Umar Tall declared jihad against them in the 1850s) which might drag them into the interior whether or not they want to go there.
Yeah, France had this very strange ability to not be able to control their officers/colonial governments.

I don't think I can completely stop European influence or conquests in Africa, but from what I learned once France lost the Franco-Prussian War they became a lot more gung-ho about taking over the continent. I figure that if they won the war, they'd want to focus more on continental matters and that may butterfly away some of their most insubordinate officers {ie keep them in France}. Really, not many Europeans at this point actually wanted to expand into the interior; it was a money drain and there was no strategic reason for it {with some exceptions}. So I can see France still active in North/Northwest Africa, Britain still active in the Cape and the Horn, and Egypt is still screwed regardless {and of course the minor powers will still see incentive to colonize}, but do I see massive African expansion like OTL? Nah, not really.

And for my next trick I'm going to kill the "Builder King".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Edelstein View Post
It may be possible, though, to get to your desired result by another route. Britain liked to ally with the second most powerful continental country against the most powerful one, and if France won in 1870, it would be the country that Britain wanted to take down a peg. If so, then it would want to stop French expansion in Africa as well as Europe, and given that the British army of the time was somewhat overstretched, it would need local allies. The Asante are perfectly positioned to act as a check against French expansion in Cote d'Ivoire and Dahomey, so Britain might arm and support them.

Anyway, count me interested. I'll be interested to see where you take this - a fully traditional Asante state or a hybrid Christianized one (I tend to think the latter is more likely but your mileage may vary).
I'm planning to set up a proxy-like system in Africa {most of Africa anyway, though the focus will be on the west coast}. Instead of direct conquest, {some of} the Europeans will just arm their African friends and say subtlety "You know, there's these really evil tribes to your west that just so happen to be allies with the British. I bet if you went ahead and crushed them, our leaders back home would be happy enough to give you X and Y." Which is how things were going in Africa anyway until the imperialism craze set it. It was more profitable, easier, and less bloody {for Europe}. Really it was the most sensible thing to do.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 15th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
London: 1880

"We have France as a serious threat to our nation, and you want to send troops into Africa? Africa?"

General Wolseley shifted slightly in his seat. "Sir, the Fante are moving away from our influence, and it looks like war will break out between them and the Asante at any moment. If we wait until they ware each other out, we could sweep in and conquer them both."

"And what would be the benefit of this?"

"Well sir... expansion of the Empire. Strategic control of the region and the elimination of two of the major powers in West Africa. It would be an excellent location to expand inland and-"

Wolsely stopped when he heard the other man sigh.

"Wolsely, let me show you something." A map of Africa was produced, from the Mediterranean coast down to the Cape. "The French daily try and increase their influence in the Suez Canal" the older man said, pointing at the Canal in case Wolsely didn't know where it was, "our vital artery to India and Asia. They take this, and they could get ships to India faster then we could. But you'd have us send men -no, it doesn't matter how many, but you'd have us send men all the way over here" he said, dragging his finger to the Fante controlled coast "to fight and die in a place of no strategic value for the Empire.

"Sir, we cannot just abandon the Gold Coast."

"We're not going to. As long as the powers that are there don't interfere with British business -and leave our coaling stations alone-, we don't care what they do. Let them go to war, it'll drive up the price of our arms, and the Asante have already promised to uphold our trading rights and forts if they won. But you must stop this "African Empire" crusade. We need you here in London in case there's a row with France..."

Asante-Fante Border, 1880

Minkah stared into the fire at his camp, slowly eating a bowl of yams while his rifle lied on his lap. The sun had gone down hours ago and his camp was mostly silent, besides the odd game of European cards being played here and there. For Minkah, this was the fourteenth night that he has stared into the fire at his camp eating a bowl of yams, and he was growing rather sick of it all. He longed to be back in Boben where he could stare into a fire from a comfortable bed, with a whore at his side and beer in his stomach, instead of on a log with no one to keep him company but the mosquitoes.

"In need of company Minkah?"

Minkah sighed, but sarcastically and with much exaggeration. "Not from you Kwame. Go away, I'm busy discussing Dahomey trade policy with these mosquitoes."

Kwame sat down next to Minkah, his rifle slung over his shoulder. "Your words wound me more than Fante bullets ever will" he said smiling. "How can you do such a thing to your brother in arms?"

"The way you run from battle, I don't think anyone's bullets will catch you."

Kwame laughed. "You're cruel Minkah. I don't know why I bother talking to you." A brief pause, then "Have you heard that we fight tomorrow? We're going to break the Fante forces in the west, then hurry and flank the forces in the center with the other Asante armies."

"No, I had not heard this. And here I thought I would be doomed to sit here and stare at this fire every night for eternity."

A smile appeared on Kwame's face, but it wasn't a happy one. "The Fante will fight fiercely. They are armed with British weapons and know how to use them. And all we have are these Dutch pieces of crap" he said, kicking the gun for emphases. "I wonder perhaps if they'll drive us back to Kumasi." Minkah looked at Kwame, but he was staring into the fire, expressionless. "I think that, if I ever am able to leave the soldier's life, I would travel the world. Maybe go to Dahomey, and from there deeper inland."

"Nothing but Muslims and Arabs inland." Minkah said flatly, taking another mouthful of yams. "What about Europe? Maybe even Britain?"

Kwame chuckled. "Britain? I've heard those traders talk, nothing but rain rain rain rain rain. I might as well jump in the ocean; I could have the full experience there for free." Minkah burst out laughing at that, with Kwame joining.

Calming down, Minkah stood. "I should get to sleep. Going to need the energy to get these fucking yams out of my mind, I've begun to hate the things." But before he could take three steps, Kwame called out to him.

"Before you sleep Minkah, perhaps you'd like to see this nice little spot over there behind the grass" he said, pointing to what was probably a completely random location where grass happened to be located. "It's best to make sure one's nerves are calm before battle, and you can't be calm when your body is screaming at you, cursing you for passing up the chance to lay with Kwame."

Minkah burst out laughing again. "Is this why you came over here? To drag me to the bushes and have sex?" But even as he was saying the words, Minkah was already walking to the spot Kwame pointed out. "Why not just wait until we reach a Fante city and pay some whore?"

"Actually," Kwame started as he stood up to follow Minkah "I came here for your yams, but you seemed so enthralled by them I didn't want to ruin the moment. If I had known you'd hated them, I would have taken them and been on my way. Alas, the yams are gone, so I'm forced to sate my apatite in other, yam-less ways."

---

Early next morning, drums went off in the camp. Time to move. Minkah, feeling well rested despite the few hours of sleep he obtained, quickly dressed and packed his belongings, then made sure his rifle was in good order and he had all of his ammo. He then gave his heavier equipment over to the baggage train. He needed to be light for what was going to come next. For the Asante were about to cross the border, to snuff out the Fante and ensure mastery of the coast. Or so he hoped. There was always the chance that the British would come to the aid of their dogs, but that thought was so depressing that Minkah quickly pushed it out of his head, aided by the thundering hooves of the scouts as they rushed forward. After he was fully prepared and eaten a quick meal of yams and peanuts {he would burn down the next yam farm he saw, be it Asante or Fante}, he stepped into line for the march.

Kwame was to his left, along with Minkah's friend Adusa who marched in front of him. At least the march wouldn't be a boring one.

"You two need to learn to keep it down" Adusa said, faking exasperation. "Some of us were trying to sleep; in case you forgot last night, we are in a war."

Kwame grinned. "Don't blame me for keeping you up, the noise was all Minkah. You'd swear the man had never been ent-"

"Look, it's been a while since I last visited a whore" Minkah quickly interrupted, which brought snickers from the soldiers in earshot. "Apologies Adusa." After that there was a moderate silence, during which time Minkah began to daydream about living in Kumasi. The cosmopolitanism of it, the bustling trade stalls and different people, all of the ways to win a fortune. There was a new class of people in Asante, the merchants who traded with the Europeans for goods. Already there were shouting matches between them and the Elders, or so Minkah had heard.

"So Kwame", Adusa said without turning around. "What's Minkah like in the act? Calm and reserved, or like a northern savage?"

Minkah was snapped out of his daydream, images of owning a big house in the capital vanished from his head like mists. "See, this is why I don't eat with you people" Minkah said, half-sighing and half-laughing. "Why do you care what I am like in the act, don't you have a wife?"

"Yes" Adusa admitted. "But that doesn't mean I can't make this march as painful for you as possible. Come on Kwame, you can trust me, I won't tell anyone."

The other soldiers around them were also listening in.

"Well" Kwame started, "he has the look of someone who'd probably fuck with dignity and grace like a noblewoman, but once the heat starts to rise-"

Frowning, Minkah now regretted that he was surrounded by friends on this march. He wished that his march was instead as boring and quiet as possible. Or at the very least, less focused on him.


Author's Note: That discussion with Wolseley and his random political superior was filled with great exaggeration. France isn't quite the threat to Britain that Wolseley's superior made it out to be, and neither is the situation in West Africa as potentially advantageous as Wolseley made it out to be. Though if one were to compare the two, the French deserve more attention. This story, as it's told by people and newspapers, is full of exaggerations, ignorance, and hyperbole, just as real life is. I also have no clue at all how gays were treated in Asante, the only info I can find is how gays are treated in modern-day Ghana {hint: not well}. I'm just assuming that it's treated as must cultures treated it before Christian/Islamic/European influence spread, which is with a shrug. And I'm a sucker for gay stories besides.

I probably won't cover the war in detail since I suck at writing battles, so I'll go elsewhere while they're fighting. Likely back to Kumasi, or some other place in the region. Meanwhile I'll keep touching on events in Europe and the world, but pretty much only as it pertains to the Asante; the few occasions when I just give info, it will be in short, few sentence bursts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 15th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Jonathan Edelstein Jonathan Edelstein is offline
Rooted Cosmopolitan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
I don't think I can completely stop European influence or conquests in Africa, but from what I learned once France lost the Franco-Prussian War they became a lot more gung-ho about taking over the continent. I figure that if they won the war, they'd want to focus more on continental matters and that may butterfly away some of their most insubordinate officers {ie keep them in France}. Really, not many Europeans at this point actually wanted to expand into the interior; it was a money drain and there was no strategic reason for it {with some exceptions}. So I can see France still active in North/Northwest Africa, Britain still active in the Cape and the Horn, and Egypt is still screwed regardless {and of course the minor powers will still see incentive to colonize}, but do I see massive African expansion like OTL? Nah, not really.

And for my next trick I'm going to kill the "Builder King".
While Leopold richly deserves such a fate, hopefully in a manner that involves a missing hand or two, that wouldn't be enough to keep Europeans out of the Congo basin. The Congo was one part of Africa where colonialism was actually profitable for a while - it had huge amounts of rubber, which was a very lucrative trade during the late nineteenth century, as well as ivory, diamonds and minerals. If you keep him out, someone else will come in - Portugal, Britain, France or some other private concessionaire.

Basically, African colonialism in your scenario will be restricted to the areas that are strategic and/or profitable, but that's still a good deal of the continent. Southern Africa (i.e., modern-day South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Angola and Mozambique) will be taken, both because of the mineral wealth and because these were areas where Europeans actually wanted to settle. Kenya and Tanganyika will be colonized for agricultural land, coastal Sudan and northern Somalia to suppress piracy and control access to the Red Sea, coastal West Africa to control trade with the interior (with some palm oil producing regions possibly being annexed outright), and as noted above, the Congo basin for rubber and minerals.

That leaves a pretty big area of interior West Africa, and assuming that France and Britain actually discipline their errant governors and military commanders, the Asante should be safe. There may also be a few surviving states in the Great Lakes region - Malawi, Rwanda, Burundi and the Buganda kingdom, assuming that the last of these isn't vassalized by Egypt - as well as Ethiopia, the east coast and interior of Somalia, and a few Lesotho or Swaziland-type kingdoms in the parts of southern Africa that the Europeans didn't want.

The Kongo kingdom might survive as a quasi-independent Portuguese vassal, although Portuguese coffee planters and diamond hunters may encroach on them. Also, Egypt's land claims in OTL extended as far as Uganda and parts of the Central African Republic, and if the Europeans don't colonize that part of AFrica, it may press those claims.

So, basically, draw a north-south line from Douala to Tripoli, and the interior area west of that line is your playground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
I'm planning to set up a proxy-like system in Africa {most of Africa anyway, though the focus will be on the west coast}. Instead of direct conquest, {some of} the Europeans will just arm their African friends and say subtlety "You know, there's these really evil tribes to your west that just so happen to be allies with the British. I bet if you went ahead and crushed them, our leaders back home would be happy enough to give you X and Y." Which is how things were going in Africa anyway until the imperialism craze set it. It was more profitable, easier, and less bloody {for Europe}. Really it was the most sensible thing to do.
This could happen, particularly in West Africa. If you want the Asante to modernize and become a major power, though, they'll have to get more than Europe's castoff junk - which probably means a closer relationship with Britain, at least for a while.

I'd assume that the initial Asante expansion will be to the west - they've got a strong Fon kingdom in Dahomey to the east, and a fairly large Mossi state up north, while the kingdoms in OTL Cote d'Ivoire were smaller and weaker. On the other hand, they may also be able to take advantage of the fracturing of the Mossi empire in the late 19th century.
__________________
Jonathan Edelstein

"Who is wise? He who learns from all." -- Ben Zoma, Pirkei Avot 4:1
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 15th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Edelstein View Post
-snip
Oh yes, I don't think Europe will be content to leave Africa alone. I imagine that Africa will become a "little empire's playground"; Portugal will likely get her Pink Map and some of the Congo, the Netherlands may be more active on the West Coast without all of that competition {still debating that one}, and Spain may decide to make a new Empire here after she looses the Spanish-American war {I don't think I've changed enough to butterfly that away}. The only power I'm questioning is Italy; France may very well still try and snag Tunisia {though OTL that was with British encouragement, so I still have to think on that}, and there's no way in hell she's taking Egypt. I'm considering having Italy buddy up with Britain to contain France, so I may have her take Tunisia after all, haven't decided.

I'm thinking of having the Congo divided up in some way; without that IAA nonsense those who decide to come are going to be less subtle and just break it up. Between who I don't know, Belgium seemed to be very uninterested in colonialism at the time. Portugal and Spain? Italy? America? Japan? Who knows?

The Red Sea will not be spared of course, especially with that canal business. Honestly I didn't think East Africa was that important to Europe but it is a breadbasket. Not sure who's taking that either, I'll probably figure it out as I go, but I'm certain that Britain and France will play a far smaller role in Africa than OTL. South Africa will probably still go to the British as per OTL. But West Africa will be my sandbox.

As for Asante expansionism, they're going to deal with the Fante first. From there I'll give them time to consolidate and me time to look at the world some more before sending their legions elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 15th, 2012, 05:21 PM
Ganesha Ganesha is offline
શિવા બાળક
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois, USA
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
Oh yes, I don't think Europe will be content to leave Africa alone. I imagine that Africa will become a "little empire's playground"; Portugal will likely get her Pink Map and some of the Congo, the Netherlands may be more active on the West Coast without all of that competition {still debating that one}, and Spain may decide to make a new Empire here after she looses the Spanish-American war {I don't think I've changed enough to butterfly that away}. The only power I'm questioning is Italy; France may very well still try and snag Tunisia {though OTL that was with British encouragement, so I still have to think on that}, and there's no way in hell she's taking Egypt. I'm considering having Italy buddy up with Britain to contain France, so I may have her take Tunisia after all, haven't decided.

*snip*

As for Asante expansionism, they're going to deal with the Fante first. From there I'll give them time to consolidate and me time to look at the world some more before sending their legions elsewhere.
The Asante will need some infrastructure and organizational development before they're able to launch campaigns too far away for too long. Their road system was pretty poor, and while their supply lines were comparatively modern, they still weren't nearly good enough to beat a European power independently. I think, as Jonathan suggested, that this sort of aid is most likely to come from the British - the Dutch won't remain good enough for much longer, and in fact, are likely to become a proxy to either Britain or France as the rivalry develops. Either France from intimidation, or Britain from fear of France.

Great start by the way, I'm really liking it thus far! Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Ganesha
__________________
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.” Aldous Huxley
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 15th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
ITALY ANNEXES TUNISIA
ITALIAN TROOPS MARCH INTO TUNIS. FRANCE ENRAGED. BRITAIN ACCEPTS ITALIAN OCCUPATION


"Italy, long having designs over Tunisia, finally sent troops into its capital, Tunis, and announced an Italian protectorate over the country. The British have backed the Italian move, along with the Prussians. The French vehemently oppose the British and Italian play as a form of containment. French troops were moved to the border of Tunisia from Algeria, Italy responded with reinforcement from Libya. A conference was called for by Britain, which..."

"... shocking and tragic turn of events, King Leopold II of Belgium died today, on March 1881. He had long been pushing for a Belgian presence in the Congo, but the state was uninterested. He apparently had a plan to convince the other European powers to fund him but died in a freak accident before he could get the plan off the ground. The exact manner of death is still baffling investigators, but it is at least known to not involve foul play. Sickeningly enough, both of his hands were cut off from his arms...

KASUMI 1883

On this warm summer day in Kasumi, the center of the world, soldiers marched to-and-fro in random fashion. Most of them were probably on their way to the Fante coast, to pacify a small revolt, but it seemed like some were just walking in circles. Atu Badu only focused on them for a few instants, for he was on his way to see the Obirempon.

Badu was a man of taste. He only drank the finest palm wines, wore the finest cloth, and ate with those of like status. Born of poverty in Safoy, he was shrewd enough to see the opportunity that presented itself when the British and Dutch planted down forts. He and his family were originally farmers, but Badu did not send his produce to the market stalls as most did. After paying his food tax, he sent the remainder with his wife to the Dutch {and occasionally British}, who paid for his plantains and sweet potatoes with useful items like guns and other devices. He kept that trade up, selling the European devices away for a tidy profit, and when he had enough money he bought some slaves to work his farm. The slaves freed up time for him to engage in other pursuits.

One of which was actually trading. Leaving his wife home with the children, Badu embarked on the trading trip to the European forts himself. Once there he learned much of the world beyond West Africa, and was even able to take some books for free. One of those books had inspired him to do what he was going to do now.

Because he was not of noble birth or a politician, Badu had to get to know someone who was. The Obirempon {similar to governor} of Safoy was that person. Badu was hoping he could convince the Obirempon to try and convince the Elders for improved roads from Safoy to the coast; it would make his job and the jobs of all traders easier. He had arranged a lunch with the man at a place just outside of his office, where they could talk in the sun. Badu was a farmer at heart, and unused to the closed spaces that the Obirempon worked in. For the occasion he had brought his best palm wine, sweet potatoes, and a special gift; salted meats from the Dutch.

Once he arrived, he let an aid know that Atu Badu was here to see the Obirempon as agreed. Once that was done, he went outside and rolled out a mat for them to sit on and set everything up.

When the Obirempon walked out a few minutes later, the lunch was ready.

"Good to see you Badu" he said, sitting down on the mat. "What do we have here, sweet potatoes, palm wine -made by your wife no doubt, I can tell her craftsmanship, and... is this salted meat?"

"It is indeed Obirempon. Only the best."

The Obirempon picked up a piece of meat and ate it, apparently taking his time to savor each bite. "Mhm, the best indeed" he said around bites. "So my friend, what did you wish to discuss?"

Atu Badu smiled, and told him.

Author's Note: I don't plan to jump around years so much, I skipped some time mostly to avoid writing about any battles.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 15th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganesha View Post
The Asante will need some infrastructure and organizational development before they're able to launch campaigns too far away for too long. Their road system was pretty poor, and while their supply lines were comparatively modern, they still weren't nearly good enough to beat a European power independently. I think, as Jonathan suggested, that this sort of aid is most likely to come from the British - the Dutch won't remain good enough for much longer, and in fact, are likely to become a proxy to either Britain or France as the rivalry develops. Either France from intimidation, or Britain from fear of France.

Great start by the way, I'm really liking it thus far! Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Ganesha
Don't you worry, I don't plan on having the Asante get on equal footing with Europe for quite a while. Now is the time for consolidation, and the Asante will have internal stuff to deal with for a while.

As for the Netherlands, they and all of BeNeLux {maybe not Lux} will become a point of contention. Not sure how that will play out. I'm more interested in the moment with Italy, though I plan on giving Portugal and Spain they're small newspaper clippings too.

I'm also thinking of how "WW1" will play out, the causes of that war were laid out already but the alliances will be different. I'm thinking it will be more regional and broken up than one large war, but we'll see, and it won't get much time anyway.

EDIT: And thanks for the kind words.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 15th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Jonathan Edelstein Jonathan Edelstein is offline
Rooted Cosmopolitan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
I'm thinking of having the Congo divided up in some way; without that IAA nonsense those who decide to come are going to be less subtle and just break it up. Between who I don't know, Belgium seemed to be very uninterested in colonialism at the time. Portugal and Spain? Italy? America? Japan? Who knows?
The two most obvious candidates are Portugal (which controlled Angola) and France (which had established a coastal presence in Gabon). Britain won't want France to grab the Congo, so it will probably back Portugal's claim or else support some other minor power.

A division of territory is possible, although since the Congo River is the only major highway through the basin, the natural tendency would be for either one or two powers to control all of it: whoever has Brazzaville and Kinshasa would be able to control traffic in and out.

Anyway, nice updates - I'll look forward to seeing how this goes.
__________________
Jonathan Edelstein

"Who is wise? He who learns from all." -- Ben Zoma, Pirkei Avot 4:1
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 15th, 2012, 06:52 PM
XanXar XanXar is offline
Can You pronounce my username?
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, Britain
Posts: 455
I have a funny feeling that for some reason all Sub-Saharan TLs are now going to end in ''Rising''.
But better that then no African timelines at all, good TL so far.
__________________
Age of the Andulus 2.0 :
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 15th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanXar View Post
I have a funny feeling that for some reason all Sub-Saharan TLs are now going to end in ''Rising''.
But better that then no African timelines at all, good TL so far.
I didn't even know there were other Sub-Saharan TL's.

I was originally going to name it Asante's Place In The Sun but it wasn't catchy enough.

Now I wish I named it something else. Asante Soldiers March Through London or something.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old June 15th, 2012, 07:28 PM
XanXar XanXar is offline
Can You pronounce my username?
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, Britain
Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
I didn't even know there were other Sub-Saharan TL's.

I was originally going to name it Asante's Place In The Sun but it wasn't catchy enough.

Now I wish I named it something else. Asante Soldiers March Through London or something.
You haven't heard of Male Rising?
__________________
Age of the Andulus 2.0 :
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 15th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanXar View Post
You haven't heard of Male Rising?
I've seen the link, but I have yet to click on it.

Should I have?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old June 15th, 2012, 07:31 PM
XanXar XanXar is offline
Can You pronounce my username?
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, Britain
Posts: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
I've seen the link, but I have yet to click on it.

Should I have?
I recommend it, its got quite a similar premise to your own timeline, but the two are very different to each other.
__________________
Age of the Andulus 2.0 :
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old June 15th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Kooluk Swordsman Kooluk Swordsman is offline
Vet of Southern Expansion War
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kuruku Sovereign Empire (Kooluk Empire)
Posts: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanXar View Post
I recommend it, its got quite a similar premise to your own timeline, but the two are very different to each other.

Dangit, now I feel like I've set up this timeline as a challenge to his.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old June 15th, 2012, 07:42 PM
Jonathan Edelstein Jonathan Edelstein is offline
Rooted Cosmopolitan
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kew Gardens, NY
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman View Post
Dangit, now I feel like I've set up this timeline as a challenge to his.
I enjoy a challenge.

Anyway, the premise of your timeline is substantially different from mine, and Africa doesn't get nearly as much attention here as it deserves, so please continue.
__________________
Jonathan Edelstein

"Who is wise? He who learns from all." -- Ben Zoma, Pirkei Avot 4:1
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.