Capital Punishment in Europe

[Tongera]

Hi, is there any plausible scenario where the death penalty is kept by the vast majority of Europe and used regurlalry? I assume one POD is no WW2 and not a lot of focus on human rights (at least not like there is today). Also what would the political landscape be of Europe for this scenario?

Thanks for any potential answers.

[patb01]

Biggest thing is either butterfly away WW2 or a good chunk of the Holocaust. Without the final solution to shine a light on it then people wouldn't see capital punishment as connected to the holocaust, so there wouldn't be a lot of the push. Depending on the country it would also depend on individual cases that shined light on injustices in the system. England; Timothy Evans gets his sentence reduced to life, Derek Bentley gets reduced, and Ruth Ellis gets her sentence reduced and you eliminate 3 of the main impetuous for capital punishment's repeal. Not sure on the other countries. And I'm also speaking from a US opinion.

[Adler17]

About 1860 in Germany Bremen, Oldenburg, Saxony and Baden abolished death penalty. Only slightly later they became part of the North German Federation (except Baden) and eventually the German Reich. As the new nation wanted to have a single penal law, there were hot debates about abolishing the death penalty altogether. However, that failed. Eventually the Reichsstrafgesetzbuch from 1871, which is still in force, albeit reformed in most parts, restricted death penalty on murder (attempted) murder of the Kaiser high treason and treason in times of war (excluding the military penal code now).

Practically there were few executions in Germany. Indeed Kaiser Wilhelm I. did not sign any execution order from 1868 until 1878 (here it was an assassin, who had tried to kill him. Indeed he would not have been executed, if he had asked the Kaiser for mercy (which would have been granted). But as he did not do so...). When Wilhelm II. got to power the cases of the death penalty rose. In 1895 68 people in Prussia were sentenced to death (from 370 found guilty of murder) but only 31 were indeed decaptivated.

In Weimar SPD and USPD failed to abolish the death penalty again. However, only few executions did take place in spectacular cases, like Fritz Haarmann or Peter Kürten.

The NS-time, well, changed a lot. There were about 30.000 executions, about 89% of all sentences.

After the war the NS thugs were executed by the Allies. However, most German states introduced the death penalty in theier constitutions but did not execute them (Hessen still has it). The guillotine of Rhineland-Palatinate was not operational before May 11th 1949, three days after the German constitution became in force and banning the death penalty. On the same day the last execution took place in West Berlin, which did not abolish the death penalty until 1951. The last execution in West Germany was in February 1949 in Tübingen, when the murder Richard Schuh was executed after the minister president of Württemberg-Hohenzollern refused to pardon him.

The German constitution had banned the death penalty. Ironically it was the DP, who tried to get votes from former Nazis, by initiating the abolishment. The SPD hesitated, although they were demanding the end of the death penalty since over 70 years! Anyway, they finally joined it and so it was introduced, against the CDU.

In the Soviet Occupation Zone (SBZ), later called GDR, the Soviets and east Germans continued to execute like the Nazis did, but with not so many executions. 47 Germans were executed after civilian trials, while the USSR executed 1.232 Germans (excluding the ones sentenced to Sibiria...). Until 1953 another 1.112 Germans followed, all except 6 being "Western spys" (and other class enemies). Another 18 were shot after the 1953 uprising.

The GDR executions were 166 (of 227 sentences). Most of them were political crimes (52) or Nazi crimes (64). Only 44 were common crimes (murder etc.). The last civilian execution was in 1972, when a murderer was executed, the last political one in 1981, when a Stasi officer was shot, as he was accused to be a West German spy. However, as he did not complete the offenses and due to GDR law no death penalty could be spoken against someone who only attempted the crimes, it was a justice murder.


After reflecting that death penalty in Germany was declining before the Nazis came to power, it would not have survived until now if Hitler remained only an Austrian corporal. Perhaps in very single cases, one per decade, an execution might take place then.

Adler

[abc123]

IMO what you need is much reduced social security system in all of Europe and much increased crime rates connected to that. Than, with a lot more crime, it would be harder to argue for abolition of death sentence.
And even then IMO it would be abolished in most of countries.
Simply, most Europeans think about death penalty that abolition is simply a matter of civilisation progress.

[Ninja Bear]

Keep Europe under people that are keen on applying the death penalty; if the Warsaw Pact manages to struggle on for another quarter century your challenge is met right there. If you want it to be even more of Europe that uses it just have more of Europe under dictatorship (ex. Italy goes red, so the US backs the Spanish State to the hilt)

[MSZ]

The entire 'human rights' movement which appeared after the war would have to butterflied away - before that, capital punishment was concidered completely acceptable in some cases, if only during times of war. IIRC Latvia nominally had the death penalty for a long time and that didn't stop it from joining the UN, EU, NATO etc. So weakening the human rights movement, perhaps through more bloody or longer conflicts (in Northern Ireland or in Algeria) would make them seen as more acceptable in extraordinary circumstances.

[ingemann]

The death penalty was already slowly being abolished across Europe from the late 18th century. As such we need to change the Enlightening or make some even more radical changes in Europe for the capital punishment to be still be around. We need either the Nazi or Communist to rule Europe for it to survive.

[Tongera]

Originally Posted by Adler17

After reflecting that death penalty in Germany was declining before the Nazis came to power, it would not have survived until now if Hitler remained only an Austrian corporal. Perhaps in very single cases, one per decade, an execution might take place then.

Adler

What about the rest of Europe? You can say that WW2 caused the end of capital punishment in Europe (with several exceptions).

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Tongera

What about the rest of Europe? You can say that WW2 caused the end of capital punishment in Europe (with several exceptions).

I wouldn't say that WW2 had big influence on death sentence in Europe.

[Adler17]

Originally Posted by Tongera

What about the rest of Europe? You can say that WW2 caused the end of capital punishment in Europe (with several exceptions).

I could only talk about the law situation in Germany. However, also in other countries there was a discussion.

In France, similar to Germany, there was a discussion to abolish the death penalty since 1848. And although they failed, there were few executions, like in Germany, until 1939. However, after ww2 the situation changed dramatically. More and more people were executed. Here the French attourney (and later minister of justice) Robert Badtinter became a severe opponent of the death penalty, when in 1972 his client Roger Bontemps was executed- although it was proven he did not commit the murder he was accused to have done. Without ww2 I guess there would have been the same developement like in Germany, that the death penalty would die a long death. Without this comeback.

In Britain a discussion started in 1949. After four questioned executions the death penalty was abolished. I think here, too, such a developement would have come without ww2.


Thus ww2 was not the reason why death penalty was abolished, but a catalysator (with the opposite effect in France).

Adler

[Mac Gregor]

Originally Posted by Adler17

About 1860 in Germany Bremen, Oldenburg, Saxony and Baden abolished death penalty. Only slightly later they became part of the North German Federation (except Baden) and eventually the German Reich. As the new nation wanted to have a single penal law, there were hot debates about abolishing the death penalty altogether. However, that failed. Eventually the Reichsstrafgesetzbuch from 1871, which is still in force, albeit reformed in most parts, restricted death penalty on murder (attempted) murder of the Kaiser high treason and treason in times of war (excluding the military penal code now).

Practically there were few executions in Germany. Indeed Kaiser Wilhelm I. did not sign any execution order from 1868 until 1878 (here it was an assassin, who had tried to kill him. Indeed he would not have been executed, if he had asked the Kaiser for mercy (which would have been granted). But as he did not do so...). When Wilhelm II. got to power the cases of the death penalty rose. In 1895 68 people in Prussia were sentenced to death (from 370 found guilty of murder) but only 31 were indeed decaptivated.

In Weimar SPD and USPD failed to abolish the death penalty again. However, only few executions did take place in spectacular cases, like Fritz Haarmann or Peter Kürten.

The NS-time, well, changed a lot. There were about 30.000 executions, about 89% of all sentences.

After the war the NS thugs were executed by the Allies. However, most German states introduced the death penalty in theier constitutions but did not execute them (Hessen still has it). The guillotine of Rhineland-Palatinate was not operational before May 11th 1949, three days after the German constitution became in force and banning the death penalty. On the same day the last execution took place in West Berlin, which did not abolish the death penalty until 1951. The last execution in West Germany was in February 1949 in Tübingen, when the murder Richard Schuh was executed after the minister president of Württemberg-Hohenzollern refused to pardon him.

The German constitution had banned the death penalty. Ironically it was the DP, who tried to get votes from former Nazis, by initiating the abolishment. The SPD hesitated, although they were demanding the end of the death penalty since over 70 years! Anyway, they finally joined it and so it was introduced, against the CDU.

In the Soviet Occupation Zone (SBZ), later called GDR, the Soviets and east Germans continued to execute like the Nazis did, but with not so many executions. 47 Germans were executed after civilian trials, while the USSR executed 1.232 Germans (excluding the ones sentenced to Sibiria...). Until 1953 another 1.112 Germans followed, all except 6 being "Western spys" (and other class enemies). Another 18 were shot after the 1953 uprising.

The GDR executions were 166 (of 227 sentences). Most of them were political crimes (52) or Nazi crimes (64). Only 44 were common crimes (murder etc.). The last civilian execution was in 1972, when a murderer was executed, the last political one in 1981, when a Stasi officer was shot, as he was accused to be a West German spy. However, as he did not complete the offenses and due to GDR law no death penalty could be spoken against someone who only attempted the crimes, it was a justice murder.


After reflecting that death penalty in Germany was declining before the Nazis came to power, it would not have survived until now if Hitler remained only an Austrian corporal. Perhaps in very single cases, one per decade, an execution might take place then.

Adler

This is the kind of post that AH.com needs more of.

[pompejus]

Originally Posted by Adler17

Thus ww2 was not the reason why death penalty was abolished, but a catalysator (with the opposite effect in France).

Agreed, in the Netherlands the death penalty was abolished in the late 19th century (except during war) and wikipedia mentions the same thing happening in Belgium. Since 1870 nobody was excecuted, except in the aftermath of WWII traitors and warcriminals (and in Belgium some after WWI). Avoiding the second world war won't help, as it actually only increased the number excecutions.

[Adler17]

Originally Posted by Mac Gregor

This is the kind of post that AH.com needs more of.

Thanks!

Adler

[Theodoric]

Originally Posted by pompejus

Agreed, in the Netherlands the death penalty was abolished in the late 19th century (except during war) and wikipedia mentions the same thing happening in Belgium. Since 1870 nobody was excecuted, except in the aftermath of WWII traitors and warcriminals (and in Belgium some after WWI). Avoiding the second world war won't help, as it actually only increased the number excecutions.

Aye, World War 2 was more of an aberration that set back the cause for the abolition of capital punishment than it was a catalyst.

As a side-note: in both the Netherlands and Belgium (as well as some other countries including the UK) had the death penalty as part of military criminal law, (for traitors, usually), but even those were abolished by pressure from within (in the Netherlands) and without (UK and Belgium).

The latter's quite interesting, as those came to be because of an additional protocol to the Council of Europe-sponsored ECHR, which is so legally binding that even Russia obeys to it. As was said before, there is a very strong connection between human rights and absolute abolition of capital punishment.

[VictorLaszlo]

Originally Posted by ingemann

The death penalty was already slowly being abolished across Europe from the late 18th century. As such we need to change the Enlightening or make some even more radical changes in Europe for the capital punishment to be still be around. We need either the Nazi or Communist to rule Europe for it to survive.

Had e.g. the revolution in France been either avoided or less bloody, we might have seen an abolition of capital punishment throughout Europe in the late 18th and early 19th century, the first countries to abolish capital punishment were the Grand Duchy of Tuscany in 1786 (with the last execution in 1769) and Austria in 1787 and it would most likely have not been reintroduced without the Napoleonic wars.

[Tongera]

So it's unlikely that the majority of European nations would still have capital punishment today with a POD of 1900?

[ivfl]

West Germany is actually an interesting case according to polls most germans around 1948-49 supported the death penalty,same in France around 1980.The best way to have the death penalty into the 1990's and beyond is for crime rate to increase radically after 1945.The US case is an example crime rates decreased after 1945 until around 1965.Executions in the US dropped sharply after 1962 and at one point around the mid 60's support was down below 50%.But then crime rates increased significantly after 1965 reaching peaks around 1970-72.Support soared again and a movement to restart executions appeared which restarted after 1977.Assuming something like a radical increase in the crime rate between 1955-1970 abolition would be a lot harder and even with abolition the possibility of reintroduction would be raised.One other way to maintain at least some capital punishment provisions would be to still have the possibility of a major war on the books.Great Britain,Spain,Italy and Greece still had some capital punishment laws in effect after 1990 for crime commited in wartime.With the Soviet Union gone these laws made little sense when the biggest risk was losing some men in a peacekeeping operation.All abolished their last capital punishment laws with the risk of a major war pretty much nonexistent.Of course officially they didn't say that was the reason but you don't have to be an expert to notice that these laws where still in effect during the Cold War.As for today short of WWIII breaking out or widespread internal disturbances akin to a civil war its most unlikely any european country would consider withdrawing from existing treaties and opening the way for the gallows again.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Theodoric

As was said before, there is a very strong connection between human rights and absolute abolition of capital punishment.

Yep, that's right. Coming from a country that formally had death penalty until 1990 ( untill the fall of communism ) and where last execution was IIRC in 1987 man can definitly say that progress in human rights and democracy brought the death penalty to an end.

[Tongera]

Originally Posted by abc123

Yep, that's right. Coming from a country that formally had death penalty until 1990 ( untill the fall of communism ) and where last execution was IIRC in 1987 man can definitly say that progress in human rights and democracy brought the death penalty to an end.

There are several countries that generally respect human rights and is a democracy and have the death penalty though: America, Japan, India etc.

[Grumpy young Man]

In Russia there was a discussion in Duma about lifting moratorium on death penalty that was introduced right after SU fell. Instead it was prolonged. And here is a quote about the public opinion about it from wiki:

"One of the latest polls reported that around three-quarters of those participating "do not mind" the death penalty, and only 4 percent strongly feel against it. Those supporting the death penalty offer fairly common arguments in favor of their view: 44 percent argue that "death penalty is fair" and that "death should be caused for death," 9 percent believe that the death penalty will decrease the crime rate, and 5 percent oppose the economic impact of life imprisonment on the taxpayers."
--------------------------------
When one knows that nothing is irreversible you know that death penalty can make a comeback just as easily in any democratic country as it was abolished. Have a gruesome serial killer spree, another Fritzl/Natasha Kampush case or a pedophile case that are strong enough to stir the public emotionally enough, plus a group of populist politicians that are willing to exploit that in the elections that results with their victory and there you go.