What if no Laval and no DeGaulle?

[Catspoke]

I remember reading that Laval's daughter tried to convince him to go to the United States when France was falling and stay out of politics, he supposedly considered this OTL, lets say he actually did. And lets also say DeGaulle was shot down or his plane crashed going from Bordeaux to London on June 17th.

What is the result????

Could this lead to a steadfastly neutral Vichy which can survive longer than OTL????
What are the post war ramifications????

[Fearless Leader]

No DeGaulle is probably going to be the bigger difference here. The man practically defined post-war France! Obviously Churchill is going to need to find another leader for the Free French, perhaps Admiral Emile Muselier (OTL commander of the Free French Navy/Army). Henri Giraud could very well become leader of the Free French in TTL. One wonders if Muselier would be any more amiable to the allies than DeGualle?

Laval is a bit more interesting. He could very well be lured back to Vichy from the USA. But assuming he remains in the USA at the behest of his daughter, I could see him returning to France and making an impact on the alternate post-war stage.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Catspoke

Could this lead to a steadfastly neutral Vichy which can survive longer than OTL?

A steadfastly neutral Vichy was never a possibility; any post-armistice French regime was going to have to do exactly what it was told by Berlin.

The most outstanding anti-German figure in the French government was Georges Mandel. In June 1940 he declined to go in General Spear’s plane to England with de Gaulle, preferring to head to French North Africa and establish a provisional government in exile along with the remaining ‘hards’ to rally French resistance. He was arrested in August 1941 in Morocco on orders from Laval and handed over to the Germans who sent him to Buchenwald (Mandel was Jewish.) The Germans later changed their mind; deciding that it would be better if the Vichy French dealt with Mandel they handed him back to the French authorities, who duly did as instructed and shot Mandel in July 1944.

The biggest problem in having the British spirit Mandel to safety in England and having him become leader of the Free French if de Gaulle had died would be his Jewishness; Goebbels would have had a field day presenting him as a Jewish puppet to a strongly Anti-Semitic France.

[Xgentis]

No Free France and France is treated like a german ally post war.