Which is the most probable GURPS Dixie?

tom

tom

Dixie-1
In 1856 William Walker retains control of Nicaragua, and uses that base to break the Union blockade of the CSA, allowing the South to win at Antietam and become independant. In 1993 a nuclear stalemate keeps the peace between the increasingly strained slave-holding Confederacy and a libertarian Union wary of an apocalyptic war.
Dixie-2
South wins Gettysburg. In 1966 the CSA dominates the Caribbean and the United States is an appendage of Japanese and French bankers. Technology is equal to OTL in the 1930s.
Dixie-3
South wins Getysburg. In 1937 both the USA and the CSA are poor, corrupt satellites of European powers.
Dixie-4
The Civil War occurred in 1844, the West is still Mexican in 1954, and the USA and CSA are allied against the German and Mexican empires. Britain is neutral, the world is decades behind 1954 OTL in technology.
Dixie-5
Diverged with early's raid in 1864 and turned into a long Britiah quagmire in America that left the USA a fanatical garrison state between British Canada and the CSA, which is an impoverished British puppet. The U.S. military is actually decades ahead of OTL as of 1943.
Dixie-6
The CSA pushed on at Fort Manassas and took Washington; Texas and California have both declared themselves independant, and all four nations are rivals for the Indian West in 1910.
 

The Uchronian

tom said:
Dixie-1
In 1856 William Walker retains control of Nicaragua, and uses that base to break the Union blockade of the CSA, allowing the South to win at Antietam and become independant. In 1993 a nuclear stalemate keeps the peace between the increasingly strained slave-holding Confederacy and a libertarian Union wary of an apocalyptic war.
Dixie-2
South wins Gettysburg. In 1966 the CSA dominates the Caribbean and the United States is an appendage of Japanese and French bankers. Technology is equal to OTL in the 1930s.
Dixie-3
South wins Getysburg. In 1937 both the USA and the CSA are poor, corrupt satellites of European powers.
Dixie-4
The Civil War occurred in 1844, the West is still Mexican in 1954, and the USA and CSA are allied against the German and Mexican empires. Britain is neutral, the world is decades behind 1954 OTL in technology.
Dixie-5
Diverged with early's raid in 1864 and turned into a long Britiah quagmire in America that left the USA a fanatical garrison state between British Canada and the CSA, which is an impoverished British puppet. The U.S. military is actually decades ahead of OTL as of 1943.
Dixie-6
The CSA pushed on at Fort Manassas and took Washington; Texas and California have both declared themselves independant, and all four nations are rivals for the Indian West in 1910.
Click to expand...

Well, tom, if any of these were plausible it'd be Dixie-6 more than anything.
 

Elfwine

Fort Manassas? :confused: Manassas was a railroad junction, that's all.

None of these are plausible. #4 might be worth trying to salvage though.
 
9 Fanged Hummingbird

9 Fanged Hummingbird

I kinda like 4, even if only because it has the USA and CSA as allies which is something that never happens in TLs. Though the rest of it doesn't make much sense, if Mexico's an empire wouldn't they be allied with France? And wouldn't that kinda negate a German alliance?
 

Elfwine

Abhakhazia said:
Dixie 6
Dixie 1
Dixie 4

The rest seem very improbable
Click to expand...

Walker having a fleet capable of making any impression whatsoever on the blockade is not "very improbable"?

The Confederates, disorganized as much by victory as the Union troops were by defeat (and facing troops that weren't even in the fight at the very least), threatening Washington . . . is easier said than done. Not to mention that California up and seceding makes no sense.
 

whitecrow

Banned
9 Fanged Hummingbird said:
I kinda like 4, even if only because it has the USA and CSA as allies which is something that never happens in TLs. Though the rest of it doesn't make much sense, if Mexico's an empire wouldn't they be allied with France? And wouldn't that kinda negate a German alliance?
Click to expand...
Alliances can shift you know.
 

dgharis

Elfwine said:
Walker having a fleet capable of making any impression whatsoever on the blockade is not "very improbable"?

The Confederates, disorganized as much by victory as the Union troops were by defeat (and facing troops that weren't even in the fight at the very least), threatening Washington . . . is easier said than done. Not to mention that California up and seceding makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Seconded. Walker hanging on to Nicaragua at all is improbable; developing it enough to support a sizeable navy in four years? No.

The Confederates taking Washington after Manassas? With what, pray tell? Their troops are in no condition to take anything, and by the time they are the Yankees will be ready and waiting for them. Not happening.

IIRC California's secession is not directly related to the Confederate seizure of Washington, but due to other causes, at least according to the scenario in the GURPS book.
 

Elfwine

dgharis said:
Seconded. Walker hanging on to Nicaragua at all is improbable; developing it enough to support a sizeable navy in four years? No.

The Confederates taking Washington after Manassas? With what, pray tell? Their troops are in no condition to take anything, and by the time they are the Yankees will be ready and waiting for them. Not happening.

IIRC California's secession is not directly related to the Confederate seizure of Washington, but due to other causes, at least according to the scenario in the GURPS book.
Click to expand...

It still makes no sense. California has no reason to want to form an independent republic just because it makes the map of North America more interesting.
 

Darth_Kiryan

Dixie-2
South wins Gettysburg. In 1966 the CSA dominates the Caribbean and the United States is an appendage of Japanese and French bankers. Technology is equal to OTL in the 1930s.
Dixie-3
South wins Getysburg. In 1937 both the USA and the CSA are poor, corrupt satellites of European powers.
Click to expand...
Last i checked, Vicksburg might derail the whole independent CSA gambit. At that time. of course that might be different if the AoNV pushes on, for some reason, to capture Washington, which i doubt they could do.

But i like 4 myself.
A civil war brewing over the Mexican war, by salvage, might actually work.
 

Fiver

Elfwine said:
It still makes no sense. California has no reason to want to form an independent republic just because it makes the map of North America more interesting.
Click to expand...

That is the point. The worlds in the various GURPS books are intended to provide interesting setting for the roleplaying game. Plausibility is at best a secondary goal, though most of their ATLs compare favorably to much of published ATLs.
 
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Elfwine

Fiver said:
That is the point. The worlds in the various GURPS books are intended to provide interesting setting for the roleplaying game. Plausibility is at best a secondary goal, though most of their ATLs compare favorable to much of published ATLs.
Click to expand...

True, which explains the widely varying from OTL tech levels - the goal is a different world, not necessarily a realistic one even within the context of the scenarios.

Which is mildly annoying speaking as a roleplayer, and intensely annoying as an alt-historian, but meh.
 

Faeelin

Banned
I think their main settings are more fun and kinda cool. My favorite is probably Cornwallis, where the dictatorial monarchies face off against a revolutionary Russia, who runs guns to the Sons of Liberty.
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
Faeelin said:
I think their main settings are more fun and kinda cool. My favorite is probably Cornwallis, where the dictatorial monarchies face off against a revolutionary Russia, who runs guns to the Sons of Liberty.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. That is the main reason that I collect most of the GURPS AH material that comes out. Many times they present some very radical and interesting ATLs, which probably could be probable.
 
Guildencrantz

Guildencrantz

4, with modification. Depending on how early the POD is, if the Northern industrial and population advantage can be minimized enough to allow the South to secede. I'd actually put the POD sometime in the 1820s or 30s, when the North didn't have the overwhelming industrial ability or population that it had in the 1860s.
 

mikegold

tom said:
Dixie-6
The CSA pushed on at Fort Manassas and took Washington; Texas and California have both declared themselves independant, and all four nations are rivals for the Indian West in 1910.
Click to expand...

Wait. If Texas is independent - and there's no way Kansas is going to be anything but pro-Union with such a late POD - how does the CSA even reach the West? Even if the CSA keeps the Indian Territory, which is dicey, and even if that includes the Cherokee Strip - even less likely, that's what, a 30 mile border with New Mexico?
 

mikegold

tom said:
Dixie-4
The Civil War occurred in 1844, the West is still Mexican in 1954, and the USA and CSA are allied against the German and Mexican empires. Britain is neutral, the world is decades behind 1954 OTL in technology.
Click to expand...

Who controls Oregon in this one? Is Texas still a Republic?
 
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