OT--Proposal regarding Unmentionable Sea Mammal threads

[TheKinkster]

(Note to powers that be--I know technically this might be more fit for another forum besides AH After 1900, but I put it here because the issue it deals with is one specific to After 1900, and this is where the greatest number of people will see it.)

It seems to me it's high time it was just said that any thread involving a successful Unmentionable Sea Mammal should be defined as ASB. Any other thoughts?

[Beedok]

Germany wins WWI, come another fight they've got to take down the Brits for good this time, and they happen to choose the same name (being witty or something). There: non-ASB sealion.

[Garrison]

Unless there's a massive pre 1939 POD, yes!

[Premier Taylerov]

I know how hot an issue this, but in my personal opinion Seamammal is not ASB; just monumentally unlikely.

[BlondieBC]

Sealion with an early enough POD is doable. Attempting SeaLion is quite easy to write. There is nothing wrong with a SeaLion TL, as long as the person works to keep it realistic.

[Gunnarnz]

Originally Posted by Premier Taylerov

I know how hot an issue this, but in my personal opinion Seamammal is not ASB; just monumentally unlikely.

Agreed. People throw around the term ASB far too liberally, using it to describe anything they disagree with or think is impractical. No matter how remote the chances of Sealion working are it does not require alien intervention, breaking physics, or any other kind of magic.

[MattII]

It can only be done if Hitler can capture Dover intact immediately then do the RN such heavy damage (which will require throwing all of his U-boats in the pot) that it can't intervene. Even then, he still has to get past multiple 'stop-lines' and other defences. It can work if everything goes perfectly, but in war nothing goes perfectly.

[Doctor Imperialism]

Originally Posted by MattII

It can only be done if Hitler can capture Dover intact immediately then do the RN such heavy damage (which will require throwing all of his U-boats in the pot) that it can't intervene. Even then, he still has to get past multiple 'stop-lines' and other defences. It can work if everything goes perfectly, but in war nothing goes perfectly.

*whisper* The Fall of France. . .

But yeah. Realistically, there's such a small chance of Sealion succeeding that with a post - 1940 POD, it's just not worth speculating on a victory.

[The Oncoming Storm]

No, people should be free to raise any issue that complies with the forum's rules. If people don't like the issue they're free to ignore it.

[TheKinkster]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be free to raise it--I'm just saying that the chances of a successful Sealion are so slim that threads on the subject belong in the ASB forum, in my opinion.

[hairysamarian]

Originally Posted by Premier Taylerov

I know how hot an issue this, but in my personal opinion Seamammal is not ASB; just monumentally unlikely.

And there is, after all, a difference. People seem to have adopted "ASB" to mean anything they find unlikely or just don't care to believe. That isn't what the term means. Sealion is monumentally unlikely barring an early POD, but its discussion does not require magic, divine intervention or space aliens.

[Premier Taylerov]

Originally Posted by hairysamarian

And there is, after all, a difference. People seem to have adopted "ASB" to mean anything they find unlikely or just don't care to believe. That isn't what the term means. Sealion is monumentally unlikely barring an early POD, but its discussion does not require magic, divine intervention or space aliens.

I'm glad you agree.
I concur with your opinions, also - for something to be ASB, I'd argue that it has to be physically impossible aka defying laws of physics, requiring impossible tech-levels etc. etc. etc.

[NothingNow]

Originally Posted by Gunnarnz

Agreed. People throw around the term ASB far too liberally, using it to describe anything they disagree with or think is impractical. No matter how remote the chances of Sealion working are it does not require alien intervention, breaking physics, or any other kind of magic.

Just massive royal flush mind-breaking incompetence, and a string of successes that, comparatively makes the Japanese victories of 1941 and 1942 look like a four of a kind.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by TheKinkster

I'm not saying they shouldn't be free to raise it--I'm just saying that the chances of a successful Sealion are so slim that threads on the subject belong in the ASB forum, in my opinion.

All wartime TL have a winner and a loser. So a German loss is a British victory. If you want a victorious SeaLion TL, write it from the British perspective.

I understand your point that a SeaLion that results in a German win without the right POD is ASB, but since there are ways to write this type of TL, especially with an early POD, it is not appropriate to classify all threads that mention the world SeaLion in the ASB forum because some people write ASB TL. We should let the moderators do their job, and review them when complaints come up. Remember that a TL writer has god like powers to change events, and creativity goes a long way.

[AStanley]

The Germans launching Sealion is not ASB, it succeeding is

[Devvy]

Whether or not it is ASB, one thing that people need to be is slightly kinder with their words when seeing someone new'ish (or older) mentioning Sealion.

While I understand that it does get raised frequently and so it can get....frustrating seeing the same question raised over and over again advocating the success of a plan which almost everyone agrees is difficult to say the least, a few words to point this out is all that's necessary. Some of the comments in the other recent Sealion thread are way over the top. That said, as other people have mentioned it's not ASB, but unlikely, and so people should be reasonably free to bring it up in conversation - subject to common sense rules and using the search function first etc.

I'm just glad I didn't mention Sealion at all in my early days on this forum before I saw what happens in those kind of thread.

[Gunnarnz]

Originally Posted by NothingNow

Just massive royal flush mind-breaking incompetence, and a string of successes that, comparatively makes the Japanese victories of 1941 and 1942 look like a four of a kind.

Well, that's kind of the point - OTL is full of things that, if looked at in the same light, wouldn't be believed and would get the same claims of implausibility. I agree that it's monumentally unlikely, but so was the fact the British didn't hold Singapore or the Japanese successfully attacked Pearl Harbour. Unlikely things can happen, and we do ourselves a disservice by dismissing everything as ASB if it makes use of that possibility.

[Johnrankins]

Originally Posted by Gunnarnz

Well, that's kind of the point - OTL is full of things that, if looked at in the same light, wouldn't be believed and would get the same claims of implausibility. I agree that it's monumentally unlikely, but so was the fact the British didn't hold Singapore or the Japanese successfully attacked Pearl Harbour. Unlikely things can happen, and we do ourselves a disservice by dismissing everything as ASB if it makes use of that possibility.

Except a succesful Sealion makes Singapore a sure thing in comparison. For it to have a ghost of a chance to work you would need to have a POD so far in the past that Nazi Germany is butterflied away.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

Anything that is fantasy, science fiction, or otherwise utterly impossible = ASB.

Anything that is improbable, unlikely, out of character but still within the realm of possibility however unlikely = not ASB.


That's always been my view.

[superjames1992]

Originally Posted by Alternatehistorybuff5341

Anything that is fantasy, science fiction, or otherwise utterly impossible = ASB.

Anything that is improbable, unlikely, out of character but still within the realm of possibility however unlikely = not ASB.


That's always been my view.

I agree.

Sea Lion could have worked with the right combination of good decisions, good luck on Germany's part, and bad luck on Britain's part. Is it highly unlikely? Yes. Would it take divine intervention to accomplish? No.