Jabrut: Qart-Hadast (Power: Carthage)

[Hrvatskiwi]

This is a TL focused on Carthage. The POD is that the first Punic War is won by the Carthaginians, due to Rome's failure to develop the corvus.

Although this, like all my timelines, will have a geopolitical/military focus, I will try to include culture and social aspects in this timeline. This includes religion, but I will probably avoid any references to human sacrifice (unless anyone wants it in?), since the evidence for Carthaginian sacrifices of children is flimsy and it kinda smells of Roman propaganda to me.

Chapter 1: The First Latin War

In 264 BC, the Romans landed at Messana on the North-Eastern tip of Sicily in order to assist the Mamertine occupiers of Messana (in North-Eastern Sicily). Due to attacks on their transport fleet by the superior Carthaginian navy, only 2000 men (out of two whole legions) landed on Sicily. The Romans attacked the Syracusan part of the forces besieging Messana. Despite inflicting serious casualties on the Syracusans, the Romans were defeated, and most of the men were either killed or put into slavery. After 3 more months, the defenders of Messana were forced to surrender. For the most part, the Mamertines were tolerated by the Carthaginians, but their arms were confiscated and the citizens they had expelled were let back into the city. However, the Mamertines' stolen property (including wives) were given back to the original owners when possible, and many Mamertines were murdered by slighted Messanians.

After the debacle of initial intervention, the Romans were forced to focus on naval construction, due to their vulnerability to Carthaginian raids. The Carthaginians proceeded to occupy small islands of Italy's West Coast in order to secure facilities for piratical raids on the Romans. Meanwhile, the Carthaginians landed another army in Sicily, commanded by Hanno, which pacified the interior tribes (mainly belonging to the Sicani ethno-linguistic group).

In 255 BC, the Roman fleet at Neapolis tried to run the Carthaginian blockade. For nine years, major Italian ports had been blocked by the Carthaginians. Whilst this hurt trade, it meant that the Romans had been spending more funds on roads within Italy, making supply of the fleet construction operations easier and cheaper. But the combined cost of the fleet and the roads was taking its toll on Rome. Several towns revolted during this period, including Elea, Pixous and Scylettium. Roman dominance of land warfare in Italy ensured that (despite token, although ultimately insignificant) Carthaginian assistance to the rebellious polis' of Magna Graecia, the Romans retained control of the Italian peninsula. The Roman fleet managed to break out of Neapolis, the Carthaginian navy having been stretched thin blockading several coastal towns. Despite a successful breakout, the Roman ships suffered notable losses, having been forced into a bottleneck whilst leaving the harbour. The Carthaginian ships withdrew, with relatively few losses. The greater part of the Carthaginian fleet met the Romans off the coast of Motya, an island off the coast of Western Sicily. The Carthaginian fleet trapped the Romans in the lagoon by placing forces at either side. Their superior seamanship and significant reserves allowed them to capture or destroy the entire Roman fleet, although not without taking moderate losses also.

After Rome got news of the defeat, they signed a peace treaty with Carthage, providing Carthage with free rein over Sicily, signed a non-aggression treaty, and agreed to pay for the Carthaginians' mercenary forces which took part in minor actions in the war. Overall, whilst the land theatre of the war remained relatively minor, the 1st Latin War ensured Carthaginian domination of Central Mediterranean seas and had an important psychological effect on the Romans, having suffered what they considered a major defeat.

EDIT: I will be involving child sacrifice, but it will be confined to 'special occasions', and it will become less prevalent over time.

[Hrvatskiwi]

Yellow = Carthaginian controlled areas/sphere of influence (Syracuse is independent but the Carthaginians have a high degree of political and economic influence).

Red = Rome and it's allies.

Dark Green = Celts/Gauls.

Light Green = Illyrian tribes.

Light Blue/Turquoise = Ligurians.

Dark Blue = Massilia (Greek Marseilles).

Brown = Venitii.

Dark Cyan-ish colour = Raeti.

Orange = Thracians/Lazyges.

[Hrvatskiwi]

After the peace treaty between the Carthaginians and the Romans, the Carthaginians roasted 30 young boys alive as sacrifices to the god Ba'al Qarnaim (Ba'al Qarnaim, also known as Ba'al Hammon, was Carthage's major deity, and was a god of fertility and the sky. He is often equated with El, the supreme god of Canaanite religion; as well as with Dagon, an Assyro-Babylonian and later North-West Semitic fertility god) to express their gratitude to their Lord for delivering them to victory. After the 1st Latin War, the Carthaginians dominated Sicily, which was divided between the Qart-Hadastim (Carthaginians) and the polis of Syracuse.

Despite having been allied to the Carthaginians in the 1st Latin War, the Syracusans were now worried with Carthaginian hegemony on the island. Syracuse itself holded significant holdings, but there were no powers that could ally with Syracuse to effectively combat the Carthaginians. The Romans, whilst containing significant hawkish senators and being affected by a feeling of revanchism, were impotent to intervene in Sicilian affairs, their navy having been captured or destroyed in the war with Carthage. The Greek city-states had become distant from affairs in the Central Mediterranean, whilst the other cities of Magna Graecia were Roman allies. Only Massalia (OTL Marseilles) supported Syracuse when, in 249 BC, they attacked the Carthaginian controlled towns of Naxos and Gela. Naxos was stormed, with only minor looting, as it had a largely Greek populace. Gela was put under siege, and the army that had attacked Naxos marched around Mt Etna to attack Inessa. The Carthaginians responded by sending an army under the commander Hamelqart Baraq(Hamilcar the Thunderbolt, popularly known in OTL as Hamilcar Barca) consisting of 14,000 men to attack the besieging forces at Gela. Hamilcar's mixed forces of Balearic slingers, Libyan infantry and Numidian cavalry, along with a few Sicilian Greek phalanxes, soundly defeated the rigid Syracusan phalanx, thinning out the lines with sling-stones and Numidian javelins. The two lines of infantry engaged, with the Carthaginians holding the high-ground. Hamilcar had his cavalry attack the right flank of the Syracusan army, thinning out the flank of the phalanx. The battle ended in a rout, with the Numidians slaying many over-encumbered, exhausted Greeks. After this, Hamilcar marched his army to Acrae, where he besieged the town. In response, the Syracusan army besieging Inessa abandoned the siege and marched South, intending to battle Hamilcar. This was fortunate timing for the Inessans, who were on the verge of starvation and were contemplating surrender. The Syracusan army halted at Leontini to meet reinforcements, which were predominantly Syracusan, but included a contingent of 1,200 Massalian phalangites. These phalangites had gotten past Carthaginian patrols, as Massalia had not declared war on Carthage, and the Massalians had landed at Cartania, away from Carthaginian eyes.

This reinforced army met Hamilcar's besieging forces. Carthaginian scouts had reported the approach of the force, allowing Hamilcar to prepare for the onslaught. The Greek forces numbered about 11,000, but many were untrained soldiers, some even slaves whose masters had been forced to put them into military service. These troops were mostly affected by low morale, and there was some resentment towards the commanders for lifting the siege of Inessa. Hiero II himself had come to take control of his army, and he hoped to use it to save his polis. At first, the Greeks had the upper hand in the battle, although this was inconclusive. The Massalians on the left flank had even been able to repel the first Numidian cavalry charge, although the next charge (coupled with a barrage of sling-stones) thinned their ranks. The superior discipline of the Carthaginian troops and mercenaries showed in the middle stage of the battle, however. To finally break their line, Hamilcar let out his secret weapon, which he had yet to use in the Syracusan campaign: Elephants. Hamilcar's war elephants, which were from a subspecies of African Elephant known as the North African Forest Elephant, were used to slam into the left flank of the Syracusan army, resulting in the shattering of the Greek line and the eventual rout of the Greek forces. In the battle, Hiero II was wounded by a javelin and later died of his injuries. In Syracuse, he was succeeded by his son, Gielo, who made peace with the Carthaginians after a combined siege and blockade. Gielo, the new tyrant, made peace rather quickly with the Carthaginians, hoping to salvage some power out of his hopeless situation. In the peace treaty, he signed a non-aggression treaty with Carthage, signed as a Carthaginian ally and submitted to the presence of a Carthaginian garrison inside the walls of Syracuse. Hamilcar returned to Carthage, having greatly increased the prestige of both the city of Carthage and his own family. Hamilcar became virtual dictator of Carthage, and had secured both Sicily and the glory of the Barcids.

[Hrvatskiwi]

Feel free to comment! Constructive criticism would be great!

[Monopolist]

My only complaint is that Carthage would be unlikely to celebrate victory with child sacrifice. Child sacrifice in Carthage was more of a plea to the gods to reverse a bout of poor fortune (like a drout, or on an individual level, a recent period of poor business - stuff like that), rather than a celebration of the gods' providing a bout of good fortune to Carthaginian armies. Besides that, this looks good, and I subscribe.

[abc123]

Looks intresting.
Please continue.
I allways like to read a good Carthage-wins TL.

[nlspeed]

I love timelines and stuff concerning Carthage! I'll definitely follow this!

[Hrvatskiwi]

After the signing of a peace treaty with Syracuse in 245 BC, the Carthaginians spent the next two decades largely peacefully. Having had two moderate-scale wars in a row, Hamilcar, who now held the reins of power in the city of Carthage, felt that peace was essential to the normalisation of Central Mediterranean trade, from which the Carthaginians could become increasingly prosperous, due to their new, advantageous position in control of Sicily. The only real Carthaginian expansion in this period, known to modern historians as the Latin Interbellum, was the pacification of tribes in the interior of Corsica and Sardinia and the rebuff of minor tribal raids from the Numidians and interior Libyans.

By contrast, the rest of the Mediterranean was in a transitionary phase. In Macedonia, Antigonus II Gonatas, with his son Demetrius II Aetolicus (who had been appointed to the same level of power as his father, as his father hoped to give his son experience in governance) had finished a campaign against King Alexander II of Epirus, resulting in the annexation of Epirus to Macedon. Antigonus had tried his best to maintain good relations with Aratus of Sicyon, but Aratus led 400 men to attack the Macedonian garrison of Corinth in 243 BC. The 400 men overwhelmed the Macedonian garrison, but Aratus was killed in the attack. With their leader having been killed, the rebels quickly surrendered to Macedonian reinforcements. In 239 BC, Antigonus died at the age of 80. After coming to power, Demetrius II led a short military campaign, bringing Boethia under Macedonian control. In 235 BC, Demetrius sent his general Amyntas to besiege Byzantium. Demetrius had seen the value of taking Byzantium in order to gain control over Black Sea trade to the Mediterranean, through which grain, slaves, salt and fish passed. Byzantium was conquered relatively swiftly in a 9 month siege. In the long term, Byzantium proved to be a valuable addition to Macedon, but it was constantly at risk of being overrun by local Thracian tribes.

In the East, the new ruler of the Seleucid Empire, Seleucus II Callinicus, successfully launched an expedition against Arsaces, the ruler of Parthia, which had recently seceded from the Seleucid Empire. The Bactrians though, who had gained independence in 246 BC, were able to keep their independence, despite Seleucid efforts. The Kingdom of Bactria became very wealthy, acting as a conduit for Indian and Chinese exports travelling to Mediterranean markets. There were also mining operations in Bactria, especially nickeliferous copper. The Seleucids also lost influence in Asia Minor, losing Bithynia, Galatia, Pontus and Pergamum. The Seleucids retained only Cilicia of all their Asia Minor possessions. This decline would be halted when Seleucus' son, Antiochus III the Great, came to the throne in 223 BC.

Closer to Carthage, the Roman Republic was expanding North. Having been rebuffed by the Carthaginians in the First Latin War, and being exposed to Celtic barbarians in the Po Valley, the Romans fought many small wars to pacify the Cisalpine Gauls. To counter Roman aggression, the Gauls formed a temporary alliance. This alliance was decisively defeated in the Battle of Faesulae in 232 BC (different battle than OTL). By 224 BC, the entire Po Valley was in Roman control.

[Kooluk Swordsman]

I <3 Carthage.

If you keep Carthage's trade power strong, I'll love you.

[Monopolist]

Good stuff, keep it up!

[Hrvatskiwi]

In 223 BC, a Carthaginian army, led by Hasdrubal Barca, blockaded and besieged Massalia, a Greek city-state in the South of Transalpine Gaul (OTL Marseilles). This attack was for the purpose of both vengeance for supporting Hiero II when he attacked the Carthaginian presence and to stop Massiliot expansion of trade ties in Iberia, which Qart-Hadast interpreted as a threat (later historians came to the conclusion that the action was also largely to secure a Gallic market). The small Massiliot army was kept inside the walls, preparing to defend against any possible attempt from the Carthaginians to storm the city. The Massiliots sent a desperate message to the Roman Senate requesting the help of Rome in preserving Massilia's survival. After a short debate in the Senate, the decision was made that Rome would fight the Carthaginians. The Romans sent two legions over the Alps to attack Hasdrubal's army. Although they could've taken the coastal route, Lucius Aemilius Papus, the commander of Roman forces (who had a successful military career fighting the Gauls a few years earlier) decided that taking the coastal route, whilst easier, meant that the Carthaginians would likely spot the legions' movement with their ships. By taking the Alpine route, they could take the Carthaginians off-guard. This they did. Striking from the North, Papus' legions took Hasdrubal off-guard, and he was forced to withdraw onto his ships. Luckily for the Carthaginians, Hasdrubal had quickly realised that his army was in an indefensible position, and so he sent Gallic mercenaries, supported by some Iberian infantry, to delay the Romans. Despite fighting valiantly and ferociously, they were outnumbered by the far more numerous legions, and were wiped out completely. Despite this, the rearguard action was successful and a significant amount of Carthaginian troops, including Hasdrubal himself.

Back in Carthage, some of the Carthaginian nobility was becoming increasingly worried. Rome was a rising land power, and despite Carthaginian naval supremacy, a large faction in the nobility felt that Rome had too much manpower and too large an army to defeat. They also felt that to fight the war, they'd have to hire large mercenary detachments, which would cost an exorbitant amount. Despite this, the Barcids ensured that the anti-war faction was marginalised, and Hamilcar gained more of a stranglehold on Carthaginian politics. Seventeen children from minor noble families were sacrificed to Ba'al Qarnaim and Tanit after the decision was made to fight Rome. The Carthaginians raised a large army of Libyan spearmen, Iberian falcata swordsmen (primarily from the Turdetani in the South), Numidian light cavalry, Balearic slingers, Carthaginian "sacred band" infantry and war elephants (historians' estimates put this army at 110,000 infantry, 21,000 cavalry and 48 war elephants). This army was commanded by Hannibal Barca (Hamilcar's oldest son). Hannibal was assisted by Mago Barca, his brother. Hannibal's army travelled to Sicily and then to Southern Italy, where they were virtually unopposed. The Roman armies in the area, after determining the size of the enemy force, purposely avoided conflict with the Carthaginians, knowing that their forces were incapable of fighting such a large force.

Many of the Southern Italian cities (being both cowed by Carthaginian power and resentful of Roman control) defected to the Carthaginians. Most Southern Italian cities, with the notable exceptions of Neapolis (OTL Naples) and Rhegium (OTL Reggio Calabria), defected to the Carthaginians. The Samnites (including the Pentri), Brutii and Lacani gathered under the banner of Hannibal. The Samnites in particular provided many troops to fight for Hannibal, consisting mostly of light infantry. Showing his gratitude for assistance from the Brutii, Hannibal conquered Rhegium, allowing the Brutii to occupy the city. Rhegium was sacked by the Brutii, in an orgy of fire, looting and rape. unusually, the Campanians also defected to Hannibal's army, despite having been an early ally of Rome (due to the Samnite threat at the time). Despite the alliance between Hannibal and the Samnites, the Campanians allied with Hannibal in the hopes they would eclipse Rome as the most significant Italian city. A combined Campanian-Carthaginian army captured Neapolis in 219 BC. Hannibal was unsuccessful in bringing the Central Italian and Northern Italian cities to his side. By 217 BC, Hannibal had pacified all of Apulia, which was the last significant bastion of loyalty to Rome in Southern Italy. In the North, the Cisalpine Gauls of the lower Po revolted against Rome, but they were defeated by the Romans, who had built up their army in order to try to fight off the Carthaginian army, whose numbers had thinned from food shortages, disease, and relatively low-intensity battles with smaller Roman forces. In 209 BC, after mustering their army for a climatic battle with Hannibal and Mago, the Romans under Marcus Claudius Marcellus attacked Hannibal's army near Cannae, a large supply depot in Apulia. The Romans were crushed decisively. At Cannae, the Carthaginian left wing folded the Roman right, which caused the Romans to redirect their left to the center. Hannibal pulled off an encirclement and utilised his war elephants by having them charge into the dense Roman mass. The Carthaginian light infantry had been trained to allow gaps for the elephants, allowing the Carthaginians to pull off such a maneuver. After the battle, the Romans sued for peace. Hannibal gave them a very harsh peace treaty, forcing them to acknowledge the Southern Italian states as Carthaginian allies (effectively making Southern Italy Carthage's sphere of influence), as well as giving the Samnites independence. Rome was allowed to keep Italy North of Samnium and the Tiber, but had to give up their alliance with Massalia. Massalia surrendered to a Carthaginian army which returned under Hasdrubal (he had insisted to be at the head of this army, having been humiliated by his flight 14 years earlier. Carthage had won the Second Latin War.

[Hrvatskiwi]

A map of Italy and the surrounding regions after the 2nd Latin War. Same key as the last map.

[Monopolist]

How much autonomy does Carthage's Italian subjects have? Like the Samnites - are they rewarded with more or less running themselves after having helped Hannibal as much as they did, or do they bow to Punic laws and governors?

Also, what happened during that eight year interlude between 217 and 209? A bunch of small skirmishes and thwarted siege attempts sort of like OTL?

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes next.

[Kooluk Swordsman]

Kinda surprised that Rome's navy wasn't limited in the peace terms.

I LOVE this TL though.

[Hrvatskiwi]

Originally Posted by Monopolist

How much autonomy does Carthage's Italian subjects have? Like the Samnites - are they rewarded with more or less running themselves after having helped Hannibal as much as they did, or do they bow to Punic laws and governors?

Also, what happened during that eight year interlude between 217 and 209? A bunch of small skirmishes and thwarted siege attempts sort of like OTL?

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes next.

Carthage's Italian "subjects" (they were more like Rome's Italian allies in OTL) were very autonomous. Though we'll see the Carthaginians further centralise their empire. The yellow on the map only illustrates Carthage's sphere of influence as well as direct control. Although I probably should've illustrated more clearly. Unlike the rest of the Southern Italian states, the Samnites, Brutii and Lacani are ACTUALLY independent, although allied with Carthage. In fact, the Italian allies keep the cities in their immediate vicinity after the war. For example, the Brutii keep Rhegium and the Campanians keep Neapolis.

In the eight year interlude it was largely skirmishes and thwarted siege attempts like OTL. The Carthaginians never got an advantage in Latium. The cities there didn't defect, therefore the Carthaginians' supply train got too long.

Originally Posted by Kooluk Swordsman

Kinda surprised that Rome's navy wasn't limited in the peace terms.

I LOVE this TL though.

Thank you,

Rome's navy wasn't limited for two reasons. Firstly, the Carthaginians don't consider the Roman navy a significant threat. After being crushed in the First Latin War, the Romans have developed an aversion to having a decent, expensive navy. Since they were never too fussed on their navy anyway, this doesn't seem too far-fetched. They figured their stronger army would protect them, as the Roman troops had superior discipline to the Carthaginians. Since Scipio never fought in Spain, he never became very prominent, so he didn't fight Hannibal. Aside from Scipio, no Roman general could match Hannibal, which is why they lost ITTL. The second reason is that the Romans need to have some navy to fight Illyrian piracy. The Carthaginians would prefer not to have to single-handedly control piracy.

[Hrvatskiwi]

After the end of the 2nd Latin war in 209 BC, the Carthaginians had another period of relative stability. There were a few minor uprisings as the political map of Southern Italy was reshuffled, but these were mostly sorted out through a mix of intrigue, bribery and sometimes military action.

The Carthaginians, having seen the effectiveness of the Samnite manipular organisation in both the Roman army and the Samnite militaries, adopted it in part. Units that weren't composed of spearmen were deployed largely in this formation, but this section of the armed forces would not become very large until the expansion of the military after the conquest of Ispanihad. These were not the only changes to Carthage's internal workings, however. A Carthaginian priest from Sicily, named Ashtzaph "Ba'alyaton" had started promoting a form of the Carthaginian religion influenced by Aristotle's hierarchy of the soul. This argued that it was immoral to sacrifice humans to the Gods, but instead proposed that larger numbers of sensitive souls (animals) could be sacrificed instead. This caused significant debate in religious circles, and the Barcids allowed the debate to be continued in the civic facilities. The "Ba'alyatonites" argued that animals, as beings with consciousness and sensitivity, are capable substitutes for human sacrifice. There was even a minor faction within the movement that proposed that large quantities of plants could be sacrificed instead, since they believed that nutritive souls still had value, even if it's less than sensitive or rational souls. There was also a practical use: the Barcas wanted to ensure that the Carthaginian nobility was numerous enough to create smaller subdivisions, increasing their control over the Carthaginians' maritime empire. The anti-Ba'alyatonites, led by the priest Eshmunkhilletz Baalhanno disagreed completely. The "Eshmunkhilletzim" argued that the Gods cared not about quantity, but quality of souls; that people must show their willingness to sacrifice for the favour of the Gods and that to sacrifice animals instead of humans would be considered a grave insult and have dire consequences for Carthage.

The Carthaginians were relatively peaceful in Ispanihad (Hispania/Iberia) in the period of 209-186 BC, but were still increasing their influence in the area. The Qart-Hadastim altready had control of the Baits (Guadalquivir) Basin. The Cathaginians started establishing colonies and expanding trade with the Eastern coast of Ispanihad. Carthaginian colonies were used to establish trading contact with the Iberians and Celtiberians of the interior. The responses of the Iberian tribes were diverse. The Edetani were relatively amiable to Carthaginian influence, whilst the Cessetani and Laietani turned out to be very hostile to Carthaginian traders. The Carthaginians also donated resources to friendly tribes, including paying for mercenaries to serve the tribes' territorial ambitions. They hoped therefore to increase the strength of their allies, whilst weakening the hostile tribes.

Elsewhere, the Macedonians were solidifying their dominance over Greece. In order to counter Macedonian expansion, many of the smaller Greek states joined the Achaean League, dominated by Corinth. The Achaean League also developed a rivalry with Rhodes, which had grown to take control of Crete and many of the other Aegean islands. The admission of more cities into the Achaean League and Corinth's attempts to exert more influence over the polis' destablised the alliance, however, threatening it's integrity.

The Seleucid King, Seleucus IV Philopater, had inherited his father's policy of militarisation. Antiochus III had been preparing to attack Egypt in order to reverse the slow territorial decline of the Seleucid Empire and take control of vast riches. However, the Seleucid's possessions in Mesopotamia were increasingly becoming subject to Bedouin raids. These Bedouins were elusive, attacking and then disappearing into the desert sands. The Seleucids attempted to weaken them by paying off different tribes to attack each other, and even struck deals with neighbouring tribes that the Bedouins would become mercenaries in the event of a Seleucid attack on Egypt.

Illyrian piracy was increasingly becoming an issue for Rome's Adriatic holdings. In order to combat this, the Romans launched punitive expeditions against Scerdilaidas, an Illyrian king who ruled the Ardiaean Kingdom. Scerdilaidas was defeated in the battle of Rhizon, where the Romans crushed the Ardiaean army, having already fought several inconclusive naval battles off of Issa and Corcyra Nigra. An armistice was quickly made with Scerdilaidas, with the terms that the Ardiaeans would fight piracy in the Adriatic and stop attacking Roman merchant vessels, or to commit piracy at all.

[Errnge]

Very interesting TL, but a few qualms:

I feel like you are only scratching the surface here. There are countless reasons for conflict, they usually go deeper than politics.

I understand why certain geographic and historic names are used to reduce confusion, but some places like in the case Massilia it does not make sense to use their Latin name. Massilia was a Greek city which was known in Greek as Massalia. Also, if you intend on using Punic names, you need to make a decision on vowels: is it Hamelqart Baraq or Hmlqt Brq/ Ispanihad or Spnhd?

Also, be careful not to over-estimate Carthage's carrying capacity for power. In order to retain such vast territories, that would require huge internal innovation. They would need to ween their dependency on mercenary forces, create more efficient roads (especially for some of their more inland holdings in Ispanihad), and also would need to create a stronger government, else they might very well crumble.

My last thing (promise ), what about the Gauls, Celtiberians, and Lusitani? Massalia never controlled that much territory in Gaul, the Salluvi, who were allies to the Arverni, the most powerful tribe in all of Gaul, and I REALLY doubt the Carthaginians would have wanted to make enemies with them considering how many of their mercenaries were from Gaul. OTL, there were several tribes in Hispania who were not fans of Carthage, and tribes like the Lusitani were actually something of a hegemony with their own power-base.

I do think this TL has some real potential, and keep up the good work.

[Hrvatskiwi]

*Please note: I have tried to be as accurate as possible, but I do not have all the information. If there are any important errors, PLEASE tell me.

[Hrvatskiwi]

Originally Posted by Errnge

I understand why certain geographic and historic names are used to reduce confusion, but some places like in the case Massilia it does not make sense to use their Latin name. Massilia was a Greek city which was known in Greek as Massalia. Also, if you intend on using Punic names, you need to make a decision on vowels: is it Hamelqart Baraq or Hmlqt Brq/ Ispanihad or Spnhd?

I've sorted that out now. I will be using the versions of Punic names WITH vowels. I also changed Massilia to Massalia.

Also, be careful not to over-estimate Carthage's carrying capacity for power. In order to retain such vast territories, that would require huge internal innovation. They would need to ween their dependency on mercenary forces, create more efficient roads (especially for some of their more inland holdings in Ispanihad), and also would need to create a stronger government, else they might very well crumble.

Don't worry, this is gonna happen (just give me the chance )

My last thing (promise ), what about the Gauls, Celtiberians, and Lusitani? Massalia never controlled that much territory in Gaul, the Salluvi, who were allies to the Arverni, the most powerful tribe in all of Gaul, and I REALLY doubt the Carthaginians would have wanted to make enemies with them considering how many of their mercenaries were from Gaul. OTL, there were several tribes in Hispania who were not fans of Carthage, and tribes like the Lusitani were actually something of a hegemony with their own power-base.

Well, I have slightly tampered with the Carthaginian territory in Gaul. In regards to the Salluvi and the Arverni, the Arverni didn't respond to the Roman defeat and conquest of the Salluvi, so I don't see why it would be any different with the Carthaginians. There will be more explanation of Iberian tribes etc., but that'll come when the Carthaginians start to extend their power.

I do think this TL has some real potential, and keep up the good work.

Thank you very much!

[Hrvatskiwi]

In 186 BC, the Carthaginians began expanding their power in the Ispanihad further inland. The Carthaginians weren't initially the aggressor, however. The migration of the Galician Callaeci into the lands of the Vettones drove the Vettone further South. In the spring of 186 BC, the Vettones crossed the Baits River into Carthaginian territory. Although initially overwhelming the Carthaginians and sacking several towns, the Carthaginians had amassed reinforcements in Gadir by 184 BC. The Carthaginian army was composed of both regular army troops and mercenaries along a 60/40 split. The Carthaginians fought several indecisive battles against the Vettones, finally defeating them in the battle of Ilipa. Despite the eventual victory of the Carthaginians, several mercenary companies had deserted, with some of the Gauls especially defecting to the Callaeci. The Turdetani and Bastetani in particular, however, proved loyal to the Carthaginians, and their use of falcata and oval shields in the manipular formation proved vital to the defeat of the Vettones. Historians argue on the fraction of Callaeci dead, some arguing that 1/3 of Vettone fighting men fell at the battle, whilst others say as many as 2/3. Despite the disagreements on Callaeci dead, there is a consensus amongst modern historians that the Carthaginian dead was far less, at most 1/3 of the Callaeci dead, whilst some estimates are as low as 1/6 of Callaeci casualties. Despite these low casualties, many men were 'lost' due to desertion. These men were primarily mercenaries. The remaining Vettone fled Baetica, eventually living alongside and being absorbed into their traditional allies, the Lusitani tribe.

In Carthage itself, the desertion of mercenaries became an important and topical issue. Many people, particularly the small middle class and the so-called 'autocrats' of the Carthaginian government, particularly the Barcid faction, proposed that dependence on mercenaries must stop, and that having a reliable, regular army was the only way that the Carthaginians could preserve their economic interests. The large landowners, however, were opposed to the idea that nobility should have to fight, as they were more concerned with the development and economic productivity of their lands. When it was proposed that Carthaginian peasants should fight instead, the nobility also opposed this, worried that their estates would be unmanned in times of protracted warfare. Some of the populations of Carthaginian territories, which made money off of mercenary work were also unpleased, particularly the Balearic Islanders (who had long supplied slingers) and the Greek Sicilians (who had often provided heavy infantry).

As the debate raged on, more troops were sent to Iberia. The vulnerability of Baetica had been highlighted by the Vettone invasion. Hannibal Barca had successfully lobbied the idea that Carthage needed more strategic depth in Iberia, and only by conquering the Iberians or by putting larger areas of land between the Iberian tribesmen and the Baits Basin, could Carthage's richest area in Ispanihad prosper. After a series of campaigns, Hannibal pacified or allied with the Counei, Oretanni, Deitanni, Contestani, Edetani, Mantesani, Ilercavones, Carpetani, Lobetani, Olcades, Germani, Turboletae and the Lusitanian Celtici. Hannibal recruited many tribes into the Carthaginian Army with the incentive of better pay, but ensured that the Iberians would not be organised in tribal units. By dispersing tribes in the military system, Hannibal hoped this would break down tribalism and encourage urbanisation in Iberia, as well as making it more difficult for Iberian tribes to revolt against Carthaginian dominance. The exception was smaller tribes, such as the Germani, which were allowed to have their own auxiliary units. These units were paid less as soldiers, but kept a somewhat diminished sovereignty.

In 178 BC, the state of Carthage descended into civil war. On one side, the Barcid faction, which supported the creation of a regular army, and on the other the nobility and plutocrats which later became known as the 'Conservatives'. The Conservatives feared that the creation of a regular army would lead to a further strengthening of the Barcids' political control over Carthage. The nobles feared that they could lose their power as the Barcids appropriated more foreign land (aside from some of their cronies, the Barcids controlled all Carthaginian land outside of Africa), whilst the plutocrats feared that the strengthening of the Barcids would weaken the democratic institutions and further the militarisation of society. There was a religious facet to the conflict as well. The Barcids supported the Ba'alyatonite sect, which believed in the substitution of human sacrifice with animal sacrifice. The Conservatives got significant support from the clergy, the majority of whom supported the Eshmunkhilletzim, who followed the "Old Ways".

Seeing that the Conservatives held the advantage in Africa, having superior numbers in that theatre, Hannibal left Ispanihad under the command of his brother Hasdrubal, setting sail to Sicily. Sicily was under command by Barcid forces, led by Hannibal's brother Magon. Sicily was to be the staging post for Hannibal's invasion of Africa. The Conservatives had quickly taken control of Africa, destroying the small hosts mustered by Barcid loyalists. Carthage however, was under siege. The Sacred Band garrisoning Carthage had long been loyal to the Barcids, and as lifelong military men, they had little in common with the land-owning nobility and the mercantile plutocrats.

Perceiving a weakness in the power of Carthage, the Roman Senate decided to strike at the Carthaginians in Southern Italy. In the spring of 177, the Roman Army marched into Samnium...