AHC: Delay the Industrial Revolution

Yeah, if we can't pin down what counts as it starting OTL, finding out how to discourage those developments is easier said than done.

Its a good AHC, though.
 
Yeah, if we can't pin down what counts as it starting OTL, finding out how to discourage those developments is easier said than done.

Its a good AHC, though.
Well there isn't a set beginning point that is markable, but the goal would be to prevent the industrialisation (Defined as: Industrialisation is the process of social and economic change that transforms a human group from an agrarian society into an industrial one. Courtesy of Wikipedia) of any country for as long as possible. I suppose it is not about preventing a certain event per se, but rather, about delaying the end result of an industrialised economy.

Ah... Perhaps I should've been more specific...
 
Probably an environment unfriendly to merchants would be good, judging by the late-industralizers OTL.
 
1. Spain holds on to the Netherlands - the Dutch Revolt drags on for decades as OTL, but ultimately fails. Spain squeezes the place dry of capital and generally treats it as a colony. The Dutch Golden Age is strangled before it starts. This causes:

2. Spain and France intervene in the English Civil War, and a French-style absolute monarch ends up on the English throne. With Parliament crushed, the monarchy continues reneging on loans and generally styming development. Continental influence on English legal practices leads to:

3. The enclosure movement, in much of Britain, is abandoned in favor of Spanish-style "open range" laws about sheepherding. Wool exports outstrip crop agriculture far more than in OTL, and the Agricultural Revolution is deeply slowed.

For another possibility, what if the Ottomans built the Suez Canal in the 1600s and worked to recapture the trade with Asia from the Western Europeans? This could cause an earlier or later Industrial Revolution, but it would certainly cause a different one, IMO.
 
1. Spain holds on to the Netherlands - the Dutch Revolt drags on for decades as OTL, but ultimately fails. Spain squeezes the place dry of capital and generally treats it as a colony. The Dutch Golden Age is strangled before it starts. This causes:

2. Spain and France intervene in the English Civil War, and a French-style absolute monarch ends up on the English throne. With Parliament crushed, the monarchy continues reneging on loans and generally styming development. Continental influence on English legal practices leads to:

3. The enclosure movement, in much of Britain, is abandoned in favor of Spanish-style "open range" laws about sheepherding. Wool exports outstrip crop agriculture far more than in OTL, and the Agricultural Revolution is deeply slowed.

How does the POD lead to #2? And is the monarchy really that bad an influence on the economy in England at this point?

#3 is deifnitely bad though.

For another possibility, what if the Ottomans built the Suez Canal in the 1600s and worked to recapture the trade with Asia from the Western Europeans? This could cause an earlier or later Industrial Revolution, but it would certainly cause a different one, IMO.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=178725

There are probably other threads, this is just the one I happen to have saved as one of my things to reference.
 
For me the Industrial Revolution was rooted first in the textile industry of the north of England, so to delay the process we would need to remove the need for cheap woolen clothing.

I would suggest that Indian textiles coming to the UK in bulk would do this (after all thats what killed the industry two centuries later). SO my POD would be:

That the East India Company was much more sucessful than in OTL (prehapse due to no competition from the French) and they where able to gain control of India by 1707 (when it became a joint-stock company) in stead of 1758 (Battle of Plessay). With control of the India textile industry the EIC started to mass produce cloth suitable for the English weather (much thicker than that needed for India). As India normally solved mass production problems by increasing the work force this would not have caused an industrial revolution in India.
 

Riain

Banned
Easy, the Industrial Revolution was preceeded by the British Agricutural Revolution which prompted people to move off the land and into the cities. It also allowed Britain`s population to expand past 6.5 million without the collapse of the 1650s and 1350s when it hit 6.5 million. This provided both the domestic market for the mass produced goods of the IR and the workforce to fill the factories as people were no longer needed on the land.

So slow, delay and otherwise make the Agi revolution have less of an impact and the push factors for the IR will be considerably delayed.
 
Have the Spanish Armada successful and put a Catholic on the throne, with England becoming a satellite state of Spain. Without English support, Spain takes back Holland. Both countries become run along absolutist lines, and their colonial empires get butterflied away.
 
Have the Spanish Armada successful and put a Catholic on the throne, with England becoming a satellite state of Spain. Without English support, Spain takes back Holland. Both countries become run along absolutist lines, and their colonial empires get butterflied away.



This is a bit ASB - ENgland is too distant to be in the long run controlled... And Catholic could do it - France didnt so bad in history.,..
 
This is a bit ASB - ENgland is too distant to be in the long run controlled... And Catholic could do it - France didnt so bad in history.,..

Well a more sucessful Spanish Armada with the Spanish army landing before being driven off andan ensuing anti-Catholic pogrom could do a good bit to retard development.
 
For me the Industrial Revolution was rooted first in the textile industry of the north of England, so to delay the process we would need to remove the need for cheap woolen clothing.

I would suggest that Indian textiles coming to the UK in bulk would do this (after all thats what killed the industry two centuries later). SO my POD would be:

That the East India Company was much more sucessful than in OTL (prehapse due to no competition from the French) and they where able to gain control of India by 1707 (when it became a joint-stock company) in stead of 1758 (Battle of Plessay). With control of the India textile industry the EIC started to mass produce cloth suitable for the English weather (much thicker than that needed for India). As India normally solved mass production problems by increasing the work force this would not have caused an industrial revolution in India.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that India would 'solve mass production problems by increasing the workforce'. The textile industry in India was exactly the same as the textile industry in Britian pre industrialisation- skilled cottage industry manufacturers. The whole point of industrialisation is that it increased efficiency by allowing capitalists to centralise the entire production process. Instead of dozens of little family weaving workshops you centralise with one big factory employing cheap unskilled labour. This wiped out the skilled cottage industry workers- that's where the Luddites came from. Britain also solved ass production problems by increasing the workforce- replacing skilled labour with hordes of unskilled loom operators who would work for a pittance.

The exact same thing happened in India with the EIC cutting cottage industries out of the market since by only buying the unprocessed cotton they could ship it back to the UK, make a profit on selling it and then buying the cloth and shipping it back to India to make another profit. Since there were no industries to at least take up the now unemployed skilled labourers they slid into subsistence farming.

I'm not sure why the EIC would decide to set up factories in India since that totally undermines the whole double profit basis of the colonial system.
 
A dark horse possibility would be to have the Tudors/Stewarts succeed in establishing an English absolutism (somehow, I have zero idea of how they end-run all the many, many problems involved in this from a 1600 POV) which like its Continental counterparts is directly politically counterproductive in terms of fostering industrialism as a menace to itself.
 
Easy, the Industrial Revolution was preceeded by the British Agricutural Revolution which prompted people to move off the land and into the cities. It also allowed Britain`s population to expand past 6.5 million without the collapse of the 1650s and 1350s when it hit 6.5 million. This provided both the domestic market for the mass produced goods of the IR and the workforce to fill the factories as people were no longer needed on the land.

So slow, delay and otherwise make the Agi revolution have less of an impact and the push factors for the IR will be considerably delayed.

which agricultural revolution originated in....the low countries

So you will have to prevent the coming of the four field crop rotation to the UK, not sure if just the removal of charles townshend will suffice though
 

Riain

Banned
Yes it did, there was a mini IR in the Netherlands in the 1600s where wind powered machinery was used to mass produce boats and other stuff. Maybe if something ruins the Dutch golden age it won`t fertilise the British.
 
Top