The non-fleshed out alternate scenario ideas thread

The thread where you post ideas for alternate scenarios that you haven't fleshed out that much. They don't have to be TL ideas, just alternate scenario ideas.

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'Anglo-Texico':

Mexico in OTL demanded that the Anglo-Texan settlers become Catholic, become Mexican citizens, follow the federal prohibition on slavery, and follow other Mexican laws. They also rescinded the ten-year tax exemption on immigrants.

ITTL they give ten-to-fifteen years for the Anglo-Texans to satisfy the aforementioned requirements. However, they only encourage conversion to Catholicism (not like it's going to happen anyway), they do not rescind the tax exemption (however they do tax ownership of slaves), and they demand or strongly encourage the learning of Spanish within ten-to-fifteen years.

There's also somebody else instead of Santa Anna.

As a result, Texas stays a part of Mexico, at least, for longer than in OTL, and it becomes a Spanish-speaking Mexican state or independent state. However, it has an interesting dialect of Spanish comparable to people with an American, especially Southern/Texan, accent speaking (or attempting to speak) Spanish today.

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St. Lawrence becomes international border:

Americans lose the Revolution. Later on, there are countless new colonial divisions made in British North America. To lessen the representation of the French, Quebec is split into multiple pieces, with each piece only existing on one side of the river, and each piece including large English populations. This is practical despite the St. Lawrence's high population because it's all one state.

Then there's a Second American revolution, and it remains a boundary.
Finally all those maps with the St. Lawrence as an international border will be validated :p.
 
(Probably been done before, but) Carthage wins the Punic Wars. In 3rd 'Punic' War, Carthage destroys Roman power outside Latium. Eventually, the Carthaginians end up in control of Italy south of Cisalpine Gaul. It just goes from there. Includes cultural and social aspects, as well as geopolitical.
 
Feels free to explore my threads posting history - I am a 'specialist' at throwing out random and often unsual ATL ideas, trying to find new angles to play around.
 
I think Jadwiga of Poland marrying Eric of Pomerania is an unusual idea but I tried making that timeline..I just got bored of that idea..
 
Caliph al-Hakam II survives 5-10 more years, leaving his son Hisham who is now at a repectable age as caliph. This leaves us with no Almanzor and the recipe for a surviving Al-Andulus.
 
Caliph al-Hakam II survives 5-10 more years, leaving his son Hisham who is now at a repectable age as caliph. This leaves us with no Almanzor and the recipe for a surviving Al-Andulus.

Problem with a surviving Al-Andalus is you have to prevent the Christians from coming back (probably doable), but then you have to stop the French from getting involved.
 
Theodosius 1 doesn't reunite the Roman Empire, divisions remain.
Or an early disappearance of the Romans, ensuring maximum butterflies.
 
Someone should sticky a thread like this, they come up fairly often, I know I made one and I have seen two other threads just like this.
 
An Anglo-CSA alliance defeats the Union, leaving a vastly weakened and impoverished (due to war reparations) Washington government. Fearful that Britain may try to re-occupy Oregon (baseless in reality, but a fear nonetheless), California and the other western states break away to create their own country, using their gold and silver to underwrite the new nation's creation. The treaty that ends the war sets the western boundary of the USA at the Mississippi and the westernmost tip of Lake Superior. Indian Territory (Oklahoma), the rest of the Midwest and High Plains become a Native American homeland and buffer state, although that lasts only for a handful of decades as Canada, the CSA, the USA, and California compete for control.
 
I have a vague idea I find vaguely amusing for making a Roman-wank timeline where the Roman Empire never falls and maybe is bigger than OTL ... but then subverting it by having this butterfly away the European industrial revolution, so instead of being super-powerful the place eventually falls behind and gets dominated by foreigners, sort of like China OTL. Maybe make it an India-wank world with various Indian nations carving up the planet among themselves like Europeans did OTL.

Mostly I like the idea of writing a story set in such an Empire, at first it reads like a standard super-Rome scenario along the lines of Roma Eterna (Robert Silverberg), but as the narrative progresses and reveals more about the politics of the world it shows what's really going on. I'm thinking maybe of a narrative along the lines of The Last Emperor, about the life of the last Roman Emperor; it would start out with him being groomed to succeed the great, glorious, and powerful eternal empire of Rome ... and then as he actually gets into politics we realize along with him how different the reality is from that.
 
I once considered the possibility of writing a timeline where the eldest son of Louis VI of France, Prince Philippe (1116-1131) doesn't die because his horse threw him to the ground, having been scared by a dog or a pig. In my mind, I still kept the accident but Philippe just ends up with a broken leg: he eventually recovers and this act as a wake up call (Philippe was described as arrogant after his 1129 coronation as co-King) leading him to follow better standards. Philippe eventually ends up as King Philippe II of France in 1137 and marries Eleanor of Aquitaine while OTL Louis VII continues his carrer in the Church (eventually becoming Archbishop in my mind). Unlike Louis VII, Eleanor does get along pretty well with Philippe: they never divorced and eventually have one (or more) sons, leading to Aquitaine remaining tied to the French crown.

Another TL that I thought but never worked out was that of Napoléon having a son with Joséphine shortly after their wedding. This affects Napoleon's pshychology and he becomes more careful with his policies.
 
Oh man, I have so many of these... I guess to start small:

POD: Athens doesn't go into the Sicilian Expedition. Thus, Peace of Nicias lasts its 50 years, continuing the Greek balance of power between Athens and Sparta into the (4th Century BC); democracy, meanwhile, continues in Syracuse, which eventually becomes a more powerful, preferring Athens.

Other than Philip II being held at bay by an effective Greek alliance, I'm not sure where to go from there, except that I'd like to see a longer flourishing of democratic poleis in the eastern mediterranean.
 
There's a timeline I've been working on on-and-off for the past few years, based on the idea of a (relatively) stable Russian succession after Ivan IV. The problem was that I couldn't figure out the plausible path for events to follow; or, for that matter, nail down a PoD. As matters stand in the most recent outline, it featured a dutch-based mercantile republics in Indonesia and Manhattan, an English revolution in the place of a French one, and a 4-way cold war between different brands of monarchism.

For obvious reasons, I didn't think it was very plausible, and kind of stopped.
 
I had an idea of either the Tang lasting longer or a more stable, stronger dynasty taking their place instead of the Song, which sees the same proto-industrial revolution the Song did but reunites China, conquering the Jurchens/Jin and others and resisting Mongol invasion. Also would be cool if said dynasty fully embraced Daoism to the same sort of extent certain Tang and Ming emperors did.
 
I have a vague idea I find vaguely amusing for making a Roman-wank timeline where the Roman Empire never falls and maybe is bigger than OTL ... but then subverting it by having this butterfly away the European industrial revolution, so instead of being super-powerful the place eventually falls behind and gets dominated by foreigners, sort of like China OTL. Maybe make it an India-wank world with various Indian nations carving up the planet among themselves like Europeans did OTL.

Mostly I like the idea of writing a story set in such an Empire, at first it reads like a standard super-Rome scenario along the lines of Roma Eterna (Robert Silverberg), but as the narrative progresses and reveals more about the politics of the world it shows what's really going on. I'm thinking maybe of a narrative along the lines of The Last Emperor, about the life of the last Roman Emperor; it would start out with him being groomed to succeed the great, glorious, and powerful eternal empire of Rome ... and then as he actually gets into politics we realize along with him how different the reality is from that.

I'd love to read that.

I have a vague and probably unrealistically rosy Roman tl. Faustina the Younger lives rather longer, and has time to give her son Commodus a loyal staff, or at least someone other than Saoterus.


Commodus seems the type delighted for someone else to take responsibility, and the woman he marries both tls, Bruttia Crispina, might have been strong minded enough to do it. She would probably have been no sweetheart, but less awful than Commodus. I'm handwaving that she had enough political savvy (she did come from a political family) not to treat the Senate as enemy, as Commodus did. She might even have had children.


At least for a generation or two, a legitimate heir means the Roman Army spends less manpower fighting the Roman Army. Without Commodus' killing of the Roman elite, there's a larger talent pool to face the next crisises. Perhaps less realistically, some patrician families stay strong enough to act as a counterweight to the militiary adventurers.


Faustina the Younger helped in the education and support of girls, and in my tl, an important difference is that one of the young women whom Faustina the Younger lived long enough to help is a very important person, or is the mother or grandmother of one.
 
I've had a ton of these, many of which I've got written down and some even halfway fleshed out, but not anywhere near ready to post. Off the top of my head, the main ones I've had:

Some sort of timeline where Croesus gets some Spartan help before going against Cyrus, which prevents a Persian Empire in the east, and (at least initially) features a Greek world largely split between Polycrates' Samos and Cleomenes' Sparta. Butterflies would affect Rome, which would remain a Kingdom here, just because I think that'd be interesting. This is the one I have the most thought put into, by far, but I haven't liked any of my attempts to write it yet.

An Arverni unified Gaul, where the PoD would be keeping Bituitus alive. To do that, I'd probably instigate some crisis for Rome in the East or in Africa in 121 BC, so that they sort of ignore Gaul for a little while, and by the time the Romans can send the proper forces, it'd be too late.

Longer lived Roman Empire. Of course. My main thought is that Gemellus, Marcus Aurelius' eldest son, who died in infancy in 150 BC, lives and becomes a "Sixth Good Emperor", preventing Commodus from coming to power. Also the obligatory Julius Caesar lives option. The Empire isn't a strong suit for me though.

A successful Great Heathen Army has interested me... but I'd have to learn a lot more about Anglo-Saxon England and the Vikings to even attempt it.

A successful French invasion in 1744, during the War of the Austrian Succession. Leads to a Jacobite restoration, and a more powerful France, at least initially. As a second PoD, the girl who would become Catherine the Great IOTL would die of pneumonia (IIRC) at around the same time, which changes things up in Russia. The enlightenment isn't as much of a strong suit or an interest as the Classical Period for me though, so this is also unlikely for me to actually do.

Then I've had a couple US political timelines that have come to mind, but those only really interest me for the period we study them in APUSH. Plus, there's plenty of people that do these anyways.

And I've thought a couple times about reviving Xamm Anim. But I probably won't.

(Probably been done before, but) Carthage wins the Punic Wars. In 3rd 'Punic' War, Carthage destroys Roman power outside Latium. Eventually, the Carthaginians end up in control of Italy south of Cisalpine Gaul. It just goes from there. Includes cultural and social aspects, as well as geopolitical.

I can help with this, if you're interested.

willbell said:
Someone should sticky a thread like this, they come up fairly often, I know I made one and I have seen two other threads just like this.

Seconded. It's a useful thread, and it comes up quite a bit.
 
I'd love to read that.
Thanks!

Honestly it's probably just one of those ideas that goes through my head that I probably won't do anything, but I did make a map for the scenario in the map thread (OK if I post a map here?).

Copy-pasted from there:


It's pretty much running with the Rome = early twentieth century China analogy, complete with anvilicious Japanese Empire expy.


It was just a lark so sorry if it's not very good.


Romanmap.jpg



Power Blocs:


Indian states (various):
Dark grey = Indian colony
Light grey = Indian puppet state


Mediterranean Co-Prosperity Sphere:
Orange = Leutvian Empire: likes to talk about liberating the oppressed Mediterranean people from Indian domination, really just wants to carve out its own local colonial empire.
Yellow = Anatolia: too densely populated to make an appealing direct conquest for now.
Red = Greece: see above
Green = Roman Empire: actually a break-away Leutvian puppet, ostensibly ruled by the "legitimate" Roman Emperor after he fled the country.


Persian Empire = pink
Land-focused power with territorially extensive empire but something of a poor cousin to the rich sea-focused Indian states; think of it as this world's equivalent of Russia.


Roman Republic = brown
The Roman Empire just isn't what it used it be...




Points of Interest:
1: One of several "Exclusive Trading Zones" set up by various Indian states; these are Indian territorial enclaves no longer under Roman rule.


2: Southern coast given away by Hispania in exchange for help with their revolution...


3: The Leutvians finally really are a proper Mediterranean people after taking a big chunk of what used to be the Roman Empire in the last war. The Romans weren't very happy about the whole thing.


4: There used to be a Rus empire here but the Persians put an end to that.


5: The last Roman-Persian war went really badly for the Romans...




Tech level of this world is supposed to be 1930-40ish at this point. This is the situation just before the outbreak of this world's equivalent of WWII.
 
Thanks!

Honestly it's probably just one of those ideas that goes through my head that I probably won't do anything, but I did make a map for the scenario in the map thread (OK if I post a map here?).

Copy-pasted from there:


It's pretty much running with the Rome = early twentieth century China analogy, complete with anvilicious Japanese Empire expy.


It was just a lark so sorry if it's not very good.


Romanmap.jpg



Power Blocs:


Indian states (various):
Dark grey = Indian colony
Light grey = Indian puppet state


Mediterranean Co-Prosperity Sphere:
Orange = Leutvian Empire: likes to talk about liberating the oppressed Mediterranean people from Indian domination, really just wants to carve out its own local colonial empire.
Yellow = Anatolia: too densely populated to make an appealing direct conquest for now.
Red = Greece: see above
Green = Roman Empire: actually a break-away Leutvian puppet, ostensibly ruled by the "legitimate" Roman Emperor after he fled the country.


Persian Empire = pink
Land-focused power with territorially extensive empire but something of a poor cousin to the rich sea-focused Indian states; think of it as this world's equivalent of Russia.


Roman Republic = brown
The Roman Empire just isn't what it used it be...




Points of Interest:
1: One of several "Exclusive Trading Zones" set up by various Indian states; these are Indian territorial enclaves no longer under Roman rule.


2: Southern coast given away by Hispania in exchange for help with their revolution...


3: The Leutvians finally really are a proper Mediterranean people after taking a big chunk of what used to be the Roman Empire in the last war. The Romans weren't very happy about the whole thing.


4: There used to be a Rus empire here but the Persians put an end to that.


5: The last Roman-Persian war went really badly for the Romans...




Tech level of this world is supposed to be 1930-40ish at this point. This is the situation just before the outbreak of this world's equivalent of WWII.

Thanks for the map. I think it's excellent! especially with the ah snippets you've slipped in.That light grey Britain is certainly going to cause a few smirks.

The Roman Empire has done very well (And the Persian even better.)
 
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