DBWI: Gasoline cars still used?

Ever since the Oil crisis of the 70s and 80s, electric cars and trucks have been more or less the norm in most western nations, with none of the major auto makers willing to produce the old gasoline and diesel engines, Petroleum oil is now mostly used for heating and the production of plastics. So my question is this, is it possible, if the OAPEC embargo, and thus the oil crisis ended 10 years earlier, and oil prices dropped in the early 80s instead of the early 90s, that gasoline and diesel vehicles would still be on the road? Or was the technology already doomed?
 
Probably yes, since it was the Oil Embargo fears coupled with government incentives that led to the switch to electric. A shorter embargo, even by ten years, would be enough to keep the inertia of the big auto companies going strong for diesel and gasoline fueled motors. You'd be pressing it, but there wouldn't be this mass migration over to electric as was seen IOTL.
 
What you need to happen is that breakthrough in battery technology not to happen in 1987. As it was it took a lucky happenstance and a stroke of genius for that to happen. Without that cars have an inadequate driving range nor would they charge quickly enough. Before 1987 it would take a night using house current to recharge your batteries instead of merely five minutes at an auto power station. It also took some government seed money to get those stations up so quickly.

OOC: There are real, practical reasons why electric cars never took off. Their range is at best 2/3 that of a gasoline powered car and it takes 4-8 hours to recharge the batteries. The latter is the bigger problem IMO. You can build more stations but you can't add time to people's lives.
 
OOC: There are real, practical reasons why electric cars never took off. Their range is at best 2/3 that of a gasoline powered car and it takes 4-8 hours to recharge the batteries. The latter is the bigger problem IMO. You can build more stations but you can't add time to people's lives.

OOC: Do what Tesla motors is trying to do with the S model: Swappable battery packs that take 2 minutes to swap out. Gas stations carry precharged battery packs. You pull into the station, get a new one and you are on your way. They have also developed new commercial level technology that allows an 80% charge in 45 minutes, which would work well for those stations.

Torqumada
 
OOC: Do what Tesla motors is trying to do with the S model: Swappable battery packs that take 2 minutes to swap out. Gas stations carry precharged battery packs. You pull into the station, get a new one and you are on your way. They have also developed new commercial level technology that allows an 80% charge in 45 minutes, which would work well for those stations.

Torqumada


OOC: That may well work if it doesn't reduce the range too much. I don't know the technology so I don't know if it does at all but that could be a hitch if it does. I hope it does as electric motors are more efficient than gasoline motors.
 
if there were still gasoline cars work would be much more distributed across the land.

why would we have centralized all our countries to this degree if not for the lack of transportation with with great range and no rails?

laptops would be cheaper too. computer batteries would not have to compete with car batteries. ...man, i'd give my left arm for a good laptop below 4000$ :D
 
I think you'd have to remove the embargo entirely. The sheer shock of having to deal with rationing and lines and expensive gasoline was the real catalyst, IMO. The lasting embargo merely ensured that the auto companies were even more screwed. Keep that shock, and the memory of that will put electric on the fast-track. While development would certainly go slower without the government support it got OTL, that jump-start made electric inevitable.

Now, to prevent the embargo, you'd likely have to prevent the Yom Kippur War and the US intervention. Maybe have the Israelis do better after the initial shock, or strike first as in 1967?
 
OOC: That may well work if it doesn't reduce the range too much. I don't know the technology so I don't know if it does at all but that could be a hitch if it does. I hope it does as electric motors are more efficient than gasoline motors.
OOC: It's the same battery, just with slightly different wiring between it and the main motor. Such a design would have little-to-no effect on range, except perhaps if the batteries were made smaller to be easier to mand-handle (even in that case, you could connect two or three in paralell to give similar current but longer ranges. If anything, it'd increase range, since it'd be easier to remove battereies from service as they hit their "old age" where capacity begins to decline steeply--you know, like about 3 years into owning an iPod where the battery life goes from six hours to two? Small battery modules actually would make a lot of sense as part of this swapable infrastructure, where a small copact car might take two modules, where a van takes four.
 
OOC: It's a battery, why would swapping it have any effect on range? If anything, it'd increase range, since it'd be easier to remove battereies from service as they hit their "old age" where capacity begins to decline steeply--you know, like about 3 years into owning an iPod where the battery life goes from six hours to two?

OOC: I thought he was referring to the 85% quick charge.

Torqumada
 
OOC: Never posted on this sort of thing, so sorry if I mess this up.

Would we also by now be facing problems from the emissions from what would have been hundreds of millions of 'petrol' and 'diesel' cars?

There's actually still a few of them out here in rural England (Suffolk). Our village is one of only sixteen locations in England to still have a petrol pump! Apparently such cars are a totally different beast to drive.
 
Would we also by now be facing problems from the emissions from what would have been hundreds of millions of 'petrol' and 'diesel' cars?

There's actually still a few of them out here in rural England (Suffolk). Our village is one of only sixteen locations in England to still have a petrol pump! Apparently such cars are a totally different beast to drive.
Hmm, I hadn't considered that. How much worse for the environment be compared to say a leaking battery? I also hear the old cars where much louder, so there is noise polution to consider I guess.
 
OOC: Never posted on this sort of thing, so sorry if I mess this up.

Would we also by now be facing problems from the emissions from what would have been hundreds of millions of 'petrol' and 'diesel' cars?

There's actually still a few of them out here in rural England (Suffolk). Our village is one of only sixteen locations in England to still have a petrol pump! Apparently such cars are a totally different beast to drive.
Probably not much of a difference. The energy still comes from somewhere, and I dunno that there's much of a difference between tons of coal and gas power plants, and lots of gasoline-burning cars.

Hmm, I hadn't considered that. How much worse for the environment be compared to say a leaking battery? I also hear the old cars where much louder, so there is noise polution to consider I guess.
The flip side of that is that louder cars are also easier to hear coming, and you'd have less kids getting hit by cars. I know they've gotten better about adding 'noise-makers' and the like, but the butterfly potential is big there, some kid not getting killed who goes on to do something big.
 
At normal speeds most noise is made by the tyres not even a petrol engine in normal use makes that much noise. Most people forget that engines were realy reved up and racing engines that you'll see in historic cars are tunned up and quite louder than normal passanger car engines.
 
At normal speeds most noise is made by the tyres not even a petrol engine in normal use makes that much noise. Most people forget that engines were realy reved up and racing engines that you'll see in historic cars are tunned up and quite louder than normal passanger car engines.

OOC: I was thinking of this article from Scientific American, where they were talking about people having a hard time hearing electric cars until they were very close, and there's a lot of other odd stuff about 'too quiet' vehicles.' It is a reasonable point that people wouldn't remember accurately, or wouldn't know if they didn't experience it directly.
 
At normal speeds most noise is made by the tyres not even a petrol engine in normal use makes that much noise. Most people forget that engines were realy reved up and racing engines that you'll see in historic cars are tunned up and quite louder than normal passanger car engines.
You know, my neighbors hate me for the noise. During the oil crisis I converted my '66 Mustang to diesel and since then I have been using strained deep frier grease from fast food joints in her (they give me the stuff for free!!). The old girl runs great, but like I said, the neighbors hate me.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Would we also by now be facing problems from the emissions from what would have been hundreds of millions of 'petrol' and 'diesel' cars?

Much worse, and the Torque curve on even a Diesel engine is terrible compared to an electric motor, (but compared to the even older Steam models they do pretty well.) And they were dirty as all get out. Still less destructive than the Early Modern electric cars were, since all those batteries did just go to the dump half the time.

But Following the Clean Air act, things were getting better. Heck, the Honda Civic CVCC is still one of the cleanest vehicles ever produced in terms of lifetime emissions, and the numbers are only looking up in places like Latin America.

Anyway, I wouldn't say that the Internal combustion engine is dead yet. Most utility vehicles (like the International Harvester Scout and Land Rover) do have an option for a Gasoline/Ethanol or Diesel engine. Yes, contrary to popular belief, pretty much every Automaker has at least one legacy Liquid-fueled model sold in the West/Developed world, and they're AMC's bread and butter for the most part, since no-one really seems to want an electric Jeep. Although they were the first to introduce the now standard system for running AWD in an EV on the Eagle back in '82. Of course it was a much nicer car for Winter than most of the compact european EVs that had dominated the market in the 80s, save the really overpowered SAAB 99E and it's rediculous Haldex AWD system, and a kerosene/propane/coleman fuel heater to keep the batteries and passengers in the right condition.

That said, it's nice being pretty much the only Automotive mechanic for about 100 miles who knows how to work on Gasoline engines. There's still plenty of business from the old hobbyists with their Pre-Modern or Soviet gasoline-powered behemoths.

Maybe the Citroen SM V6 wouldn't have been the pinacle of engineering, design and refinement it was for a solid two decades it was in our timeline. Oh, how I would love to get my hands on one, or an old DS as a hobby car, and something to work on besides water-logged Ladas, questionably legal Volkswagens and ancient landyachts.
 

NothingNow

Banned
You know, my neighbors hate me for the noise. During the oil crisis I converted my '66 Mustang to diesel and since then I have been using strained deep frier grease from fast food joints in her (they give me the stuff for free!!). The old girl runs great, but like I said, the neighbors hate me.
How's the smell? They complain about that yet?

Mine long ago got used to me, and the noise.

I think keeping an old Monterey S-55 and a Jeep Gladiator (using the 258 of course) for work is probably what did it (and by comparison the S-55 makes a veritable symphony, or an unholy racket depending on who you ask.) But both just run off 100LL Avgas now. It's expensive, but keeps them in great condition, and it's easier to get here than normal gasoline.

But they're billboards for the shop more or less (although I do run deliveries in the Gladiator on occasion,) so they only really run on Sunday Mornings, and when the weather is perfect.
 
How's the smell? They complain about that yet?

Mine long ago got used to me, and the noise.

I think keeping an old Monterey S-55 and a Jeep Gladiator (using the 258 of course) for work is probably what did it (and by comparison the S-55 makes a veritable symphony, or an unholy racket depending on who you ask.) But both just run off 100LL Avgas now. It's expensive, but keeps them in great condition, and it's easier to get here than normal gasoline.

But they're billboards for the shop more or less (although I do run deliveries in the Gladiator on occasion,) so they only really run on Sunday Mornings, and when the weather is perfect.
A few punk teenagers don't like the smell, but otherwise no one cares. The fact I torture the poor old girl as a daily driver (like I said, the grease is free) made her sounds just part of the neighborhood.
How much is that AVgas going for in your neck of the woods anyway? I hear people with normal gas engines complain about the price all the time, but I don't buy it regularly.
 
OOC: As far as I know, OTL the real demand for rechargeable batteries didn't really build until the cell phone and the laptop in the mid-90's. In TTL, this would build up the demand 10 - 15 years earlier. The earlier demand probably means that rechargeable technology is about 5-10 years ahead OTL (I'm taking into consideration that some of that technology would have to wait for some needed electronics technology to be developed).

laptops would be cheaper too. computer batteries would not have to compete with car batteries. ...man, i'd give my left arm for a good laptop below 4000$ :D

Hear hear. The battery is almost half the cost of the machine. Although, if I weren't so persnickety about the lifetime of the battery, I could probably just buy a low-end TI for about 2500 -- and be stuck with a mere 6 hours of battery life. But how am I supposed to get through a whole workday with that?
 
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