WI:Uninhabitable Arabia, Sahara and Central Asia

kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Is it possible to make Central Asia, Sahara and Arabia into Arid deserts that are mostly uninhabitable since I know that these might make Europe isolated save for some Siberian tribes, what would happen to Europe, would the Black death be worser on this scenario?

The POD is after the Humans have spread.
 
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oberdada

Might work as an ASB discussion, something like that happening betwenn 500-1000 AD.

Otherwise you either consider today Iraq part of this unihabitable sphere butterflying away (the beginning of) western civilization, or you don't, then you probably won't get the effect you are looking for. The second thing also counts for Persia, just to important in ancient times to be crosed out, at least if you want a barely recognisable Europe Centuries or even Millenias later...

Sorry!
 
Alex Richards

Alex Richards

Donor
Well, the Sahara's effectively this anyway, and Arabia beyond the coasts is very sparesly populated also. Central Asia is harder though.

The basic issue is that at the coasts this is much more difficult, though Yemen has been drying out in recent years.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

"Uninhabitable" is ASB. I mean the only parts of the world that are uninhabitable now are Antarctica and glaciers in other parts of the world.

So, make them worse than the world has ever seen? I think we're firmly into ASB territory here.

Moreover, if they WERE worse, mankind would likely have evolved/figured out a way to deal with it.
 

Monty Burns

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
"Uninhabitable" is ASB. I mean the only parts of the world that are uninhabitable now are Antarctica and glaciers in other parts of the world.

So, make them worse than the world has ever seen? I think we're firmly into ASB territory here.
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Absolutely.

Redirecting the rivers is not sufficient: you'd need a significant geographical POD to get the Euphrat and Tigris going North or into the Med. Nevertheless, you'd still had some river in Mesopotamia flowing from Persia - even if it is much less. What's ultimately needed hence is the removal of some mountain ranges eliminating the sources of these rivers. As the inner Asian rivers flow from parts of the greater Himalayan mountain range, this will change the climate of all Asia...
 

willbell

No Black Death, would be already butterflied, humans would never get to Egypt, Arabia, or the Middle East and only in about 5000 BCE would a couple ships get around or a migration go through the Ivory Coast-Morocco corridor to get to Spain that, due to major butterflies would be a second Arabia.
Everyone seems to forget that you need to butterfly the Nile as well.
 

CandyDragon

Likely ASB. It would take some pretty massive geographical PoDs. Also, if they were uninhabitable, humans never would have spread out of Africa. It would likely butterfly all of civilization.
 

Winnabago

Banned
Humans in Africa would have to develop sooner or later, especially with the Nile somewhat settleable.

I figure the first civilization would be built by Nubian nomads who somehow passed the cataracts. They would settle Egypt, and from there easily spread into Europe and the Near East, and on to China of course.

It would probably just take a bit longer.
 

CandyDragon

Winnabago said:
Humans in Africa would have to develop sooner or later, especially with the Nile somewhat settleable.

I figure the first civilization would be built by Nubian nomads who somehow passed the cataracts. They would settle Egypt, and from there easily spread into Europe and the Near East, and on to China of course.

It would probably just take a bit longer.
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I think that civilization is more easily said than done. It requires a large number of different factors, which Sub-Saharan Africa just doesn't have to promote such a thing, and still, I feel, there's a large off chance that it wouldn't develop.
 

Winnabago

Banned
A civilization’s culture is based on its geography, and how it is best to live in that geography.

Egypt’s geography is pretty much the same as OTL, it’s just a bit harder to get to. So why expect anything else? Inherent racial differences, or what? Remember, genes are the way they are because of environment too.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

CandyDragon said:
Likely ASB. It would take some pretty massive geographical PoDs. Also, if they were uninhabitable, humans never would have spread out of Africa. It would likely butterfly all of civilization.
Click to expand...

Winnabago said:
Humans in Africa would have to develop sooner or later, especially with the Nile somewhat settleable.

I figure the first civilization would be built by Nubian nomads who somehow passed the cataracts. They would settle Egypt, and from there easily spread into Europe and the Near East, and on to China of course.

It would probably just take a bit longer.
Click to expand...

CandyDragon said:
I think that civilization is more easily said than done. It requires a large number of different factors, which Sub-Saharan Africa just doesn't have to promote such a thing, and still, I feel, there's a large off chance that it wouldn't develop.
Click to expand...

willbell said:
No Black Death, would be already butterflied, humans would never get to Egypt, Arabia, or the Middle East and only in about 5000 BCE would a couple ships get around or a migration go through the Ivory Coast-Morocco corridor to get to Spain that, due to major butterflies would be a second Arabia.
Everyone seems to forget that you need to butterfly the Nile as well.
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The POD is after the Humans had already spread, sorry for the typo.
 

Zuvarq

kasumigenx said:
Which means a worser BlackPlague for Europeans from Asians is ASB!
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Actually a worse black plague is not as ASB as this is. Just have new strains evolve as it goes west, which take longer and longer to kill their victims but remain as infectious.
 
kasumigenx

kasumigenx

Zuvarq said:
Actually a worse black plague is not as ASB as this is. Just have new strains evolve as it goes west, which take longer and longer to kill their victims but remain as infectious.
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Actually, the people from Asia which are the survivors interbreed with Europeans which gives them some immunity so it would end up similar to OTL, stopping large scale breeding with them by about thousand of years will turn a contact between East Asia and Europe to something like what happened to Americas once they contact again.
 

Somes J

Am I the only one who gets the impression the OP is supposed to be a DBWI from a timeline where the Green Sahara never dried up?
 
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