"Paris is worth a flag" - Bourbon France, 1871

[raharris1973]

The Duc du Chambord decides that if Paris was worth a Mass for his ancestor Henri, well then he can hold his nose for the tricolor to restore the Bourbons to the throne. So, no Third Republic. What happens under the "[Fourth?] Kingdom" of France? How are domestic, European, and world politics effected?

[Straha]

dunno. Maybe the bourbond by now end up just like the UK royal family?

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Straha

dunno. Maybe the bourbond by now end up just like the UK royal family?

The question will be what happens in the 1910's and the 1930's.

[Straha]

prboably nothign diferent than OTL. The only difference is that france is a UK-style constititonal monarchy.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Straha

prboably nothign diferent than OTL. The only difference is that france is a UK-style constititonal monarchy.

Well, how would the Bourbons feel about the Nazis?

[Straha]

Dunno. Why not insert a scandal like with OTL's british monarchy in the 30's and a pro-nazi king is made to resign?

[Viriato]

If you can have the Comte de Chambord be a more reasoable person you can have him accept the Tricolour perhaps as a civil ensign with a state flag that includes the fleur-de-lys coat of arms surmounted by a crown. Also he can have the white flag with the fleur-de-lys as his personal standard. He'd probably have to accept a constitution where his powers were limited to the role of moderator. There would be a Chambre of Deputies and a Senate instead of a Chambre of Peers as after 1815.

The problem comes when Henry V dies in 1883 without issue. His wife supported the Carlist claim to the French throne and he left no successor. I think that perhaps there would be some reconciliation between the legitimist line and the orleanists much as there was in the Portuguese royal family just before exiled Manuel II died. If not I'm certain that the French parliament would proclaim The Comte de Paris as king rather than the absolutist Carlists.

So in 1883 you have Philippe VII (grandson of Louis Philippe) assume the throne and reign until his death in 1894. He was a democrat and he joined the union during the American Civil War. So I'd imagine he'd be an exemplary constitutional monarch dedicated to democratic ideals.

In 1894 you have Philippe VIII (son of Philippe VIII) ascend the throne and reign until his death in 1926. He too was comitted to democratic ideals and I could see him and his wife playing an important role in WWI. The only problem is that she is an Austrian archduchess, but perhaps they can forgive her the whole British Royal Family was German and they seemed to be forgiven during WWI.

In 1926 Jean III (1874-1940) Duc de Guise, cousin of Philippe VIII ascends the throne. It would be interesting to see him moderate between the extreme left and extreme right during the 1930s in France. Even more interesting would be to see if he goes into exile like the Queen of the Netherlands and King of Norway or stays like the Kings of Belgium and Denmark. Anyway if he dies on schedule in French captivity perhaps the French will blame it on the Germans and the monarchy remains popular especially if royal family rally the cause of France.

One month after France's capitulation Henry VI (1908-1999) assumes the throne. In OTL he was anti-nazi and attempted to join the French forces in 1939, but was only allowed into the Foreign Legion. I can see him playing a major role along with DeGaulle rallying the French cause. Returning to France in 1944 he can play a role as a unifying force for the French. Also with the Union Française perhaps he can become head of state of some of the former French colonies in Africa and the head of la Francophonie. His reign would have spanned 59 years and would have probably made him somewhat revered especially among the older French who remember his role during the war.

Finnally the present King Henri VII (born in 1933). He would be the current king and the queen o His mother Isabelle of Orelans-Bragança the Queen Dowager would have died in 2003 one month shy of her 92nd birthday and this probably would have again been a moment of national mourning for France. In 1957 he married Marie-Thérèse of Württemberg and they had five children. However, in OTL they divorced in 1984, in this TL I can see this being divisive in a country where the Catholic Church would be the state relgion so he'd probably just get a mistress and keep everything hush in the tradition of French heads of state.

The current French Royal Family would consist of

King Henry VII (b. 1933) and Queen Marie-Thérèse (b. 1932)
François, (b. 1961) is and therefore was excluded from the line of succession.
Jean (b. 1965) the Duke of Vendôme and Dauphin de Viennois would be the heir apparent. He would be married to Tatjana of Oldenburg.
The King's other children would include Marie (b.1959) married to Prince Gundakar of Liechtenstein.
Princess Blanche (b. 1962) also severely disabled.
Prince Eudes (b. 1968), married to Marie-Liesse de Rohan-Chambot and has two children, Thérèse (b. 2001) and Pierre (b. 2003).

Other members of the French Royal Family include the King's sisters and brothers, 1. Princess Isabelle (b. 1932) married to the Count of Schönborn-Buchheim. 2. Princess Hélène (b. 1934) married to Count de Limburg-Stirum. 3. Princess Anne (b. 1938) married to Prince Carlos of Bourbon-Two Siclies. 4. Princess Diane (b. 1940) married to the Duke of Württemberg. 5. Prince Michel (b. 1941), Count of Evreux, married a commoner. 6. Prince Jacques, Duke of Orléans (b. 1941) married a commoner. 7. Princess Claude (b. 1943) married Prince Amadeo of Savoy-Aosta, Duke of Aosta. 8. Princess Chantal (b. 1946) married to Baron de Sambucy de Sorgue. 9. Prince Thibault, Count of La Marche (b. 1948) married to a commoner.


By 2005 I can see a monarchy much like those found in the rest of Western Europe. Basically limited in power and relegated to entertaining visiting heads of state and playing a similar role to those other royal families. The only distinction is that with the French royal family if you wed a commoner your excluded from the line of succession. I can't see Versailles ever being used again except on state dinners etc. Perhaps after the Tuilleries would be rebuilt in the 1870s as the official residence of the French royal family. Also Fontainbleau could be the French equivelant of Windsor Castle with Chambord being a Balmoral like family place since it was the personal property of Henry V until 1883. I can see the Elysée Palace being a home to the Dauphin and there being various other smaller chateaux belonging to various members of the royal family. I can see a royal family if it lasted this long being popular in France because look how popular foreign royalty is in French magazines, the French seem to have a love of pomp and circumstance and a French monarchy would definately outshine the British one. I can just imagine the coronation cerimonies at Reims, state openings of parliament, funerals at St. Denis and state banquets at Versailles.

[Wendell]

What would the French royals have thought of Franz Ferdinand? The First World War might be avoided...

[Othniel]

Hmm, prehaps give parilment the right to decide the line of Secession.

[David S Poepoe]

Originally Posted by Wendell

What would the French royals have thought of Franz Ferdinand? The First World War might be avoided...

Given the state of European politics in 1914 I strongly doubt it. The French have long been waiting to avenge themselves of their defeat in 1871. By the time Philippe VIII the Franco-Russian Entente is already motion.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by David S Poepoe

Given the state of European politics in 1914 I strongly doubt it. The French have long been waiting to avenge themselves of their defeat in 1871. By the time Philippe VIII the Franco-Russian Entente is already motion.

It's already in motion, but Serbian thugs did just knock off fellow royalty. Besides, nothing required France to act. If the French openly condemn the assassination, the Germans could revise their plans in the eleventh hour.

[Viriato]

Originally Posted by Wendell

It's already in motion, but Serbian thugs did just knock off fellow royalty. Besides, nothing required France to act. If the French openly condemn the assassination, the Germans could revise their plans in the eleventh hour.

Well perhaps there would be more sympathy on the French government's part since the Queen of France at this time would be Marie Dorothea (1867-1932) a great-granddaughter of Holy Roman Emperor Leopold II and therefore an Archduchess in her own right. However, by this time it seems that dynastic links did not proclude countries going to war (Germany vs. Russia and the UK where all three monarchs were cousins). Also the queen would probably be wise to avoid politics because we all remember what happened to France's last Austrian queen when she interferred in the affairs of state.

[Xen]

Outstanding post Viriato, the flag issue was only the icing on the cake as to why he refused to accept the crown. Its often what everybody sees but it is only the surface. They tend to forget that he was a very conservative monarchist, he thought that the King should have most, if not all the power of a nation. The flag just became a reprensentation of this.

Had he somehow been convinced to just be a constitutional monarch, then I doubt little will change in France, nothing significant at first anyways. France having a monarchy would change the politics of Europe, but I doubt it will prevent the First World War in its entireity. Just the dates, the alliances, and who calls the shots, etc. How the war pans out, can change France and the world forever. If France wins the war as in OTL, the monarchy could last to present day, or the people of France can become angry with their King, seeing him and his sons living like fat cats, while the sons of the working class are sent to die on the front. Perhaps we could see another Revolution in the early twentieth century, that would probably be the case if France loses, or he can simply abdicate and go into exile in Switzerland or something.

Regardless, I doubt we will see the rise of the Nazi Party, those damn butterflies are at it again.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Viriato

Well perhaps there would be more sympathy on the French government's part since the Queen of France at this time would be Marie Dorothea (1867-1932) a great-granddaughter of Holy Roman Emperor Leopold II and therefore an Archduchess in her own right. However, by this time it seems that dynastic links did not proclude countries going to war (Germany vs. Russia and the UK where all three monarchs were cousins). Also the queen would probably be wise to avoid politics because we all remember what happened to France's last Austrian queen when she interferred in the affairs of state.

Point taken, but there are differences here. Wilhelm and Nicholas cabled each other, but by then, things were far too late, especially within Russia itself.