I am still learning about WW1 but one thing that I always hear mentioned is how technologicaly and industrially advanced Germany was during that time. So with that in mind I'd like to know what technological and scientific advancements could be expected from a world in which Germany won WW1. What devices could be expected to become more popular than in OTL, and what jewels of technology might be left behind?
Technology after a German WW1 Victory?
- Thread starter SPJ
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Try chemistry. In particular organic chemistry as applied to industrial applications Always a German strengh ,maybe they can discover a fabric impermiable to hydrogen which should aid the advance of lighter than air diridgibles.
Does how they win determine what areas will advance?
Does how they win determine what areas will advance?
BlondieBC
Banned
Like all of these, a lot depends on the POD for the win. But some easy changes. Germany could win quickly in 1916, or Germany could literally win the week before it collapsed.
1) More advance chemical industries.
2) It takes longer for airplanes to totally replace Zeppelins.
3) Better U-boat. Germany would likely focus a lot of naval R&D on this area, since it helped them win the war.
4) Replacement for item that were shortages in the war. Synthetic rubber. Ways to increase food production without imports. Synthetic fiber research. etc.
5) More chemical weapon research.
6) Less research into tanks, since they did not work in this ATL.
1) More advance chemical industries.
2) It takes longer for airplanes to totally replace Zeppelins.
3) Better U-boat. Germany would likely focus a lot of naval R&D on this area, since it helped them win the war.
4) Replacement for item that were shortages in the war. Synthetic rubber. Ways to increase food production without imports. Synthetic fiber research. etc.
5) More chemical weapon research.
6) Less research into tanks, since they did not work in this ATL.
if germany had gotten brtiain out the war quicker or peaced em out, then they easily wouldve won sooner...
i imagine a industrial boom happening, namely due to getting their newly conquered territories up to scratch, and aiding austria-hungary in improving themselves....also the war wouldve made them reaslie they needed a good naval and air development program, which they wouldve focsued on strongly after a victory
i imagine a industrial boom happening, namely due to getting their newly conquered territories up to scratch, and aiding austria-hungary in improving themselves....also the war wouldve made them reaslie they needed a good naval and air development program, which they wouldve focsued on strongly after a victory
It depends, yes they didn't work on them much OTL (oh they had the A7V, but it was something of a late-comer, and unwieldy even by the poor standards of the time), but I can't imagine a 1916 victory being cheap in terms of lives, and if they manage to capture some on the tanks scheduled for the Somme, they'd realise what a useful weapon an armed tracked vehicle could be in a trench-warfare situation, or even in preventing one from occurring, and with a less devastating war, there's more money to pour into development.
it depending how and when the German Empire win the Great War
two example
POD 1# in 1909 the Eiffel Tower dismantled, according the contract Eiffel signed with city of Paris
with out the Eiffel Tower the French military has no tower for there Radio
so in 1914 they cannot jammed German radio communications during the lead-up to the First Battle of the Marne.
and German troop reached Paris in 1914, the French capitulate. British demands a armistice agreements
1. NO advance chemical industries
2. Zeppelins stay for long time the largeness Aircraft in World
3. the German Fleet will build only bigger Battleships
4. No replacement with Synthetic, the German Empire just absorb the French colonies into the Empire
5. No chemical weapon research.
6. No Tanks, but a heavy mechanized infantry with Trucks and armored cars
POD 2# USA stay neutral in the Great War
The German troop manage to win the War in East, but the Frontline in west stay stabile
the exhausted enemy signed a armistice agreements 1918
the War turn in to a Cold war for next 15 years
1. More advance chemical industries.
2. Aircraft evolve faster an replace the Zeppelins
3. heavy R&D in U-boat. (battle and transporter) and remote control Torpedoes
4. Replacement for item that were shortages in the war with Synthetic
5. More chemical weapon research into Sarin, Zyklon B
6. R&D in Tanks include "super-heavy tank" armed with big artillery guns
7. R&D on new weaponsystem like rockets
your to choose SPJ
two example
POD 1# in 1909 the Eiffel Tower dismantled, according the contract Eiffel signed with city of Paris
with out the Eiffel Tower the French military has no tower for there Radio
so in 1914 they cannot jammed German radio communications during the lead-up to the First Battle of the Marne.
and German troop reached Paris in 1914, the French capitulate. British demands a armistice agreements
1. NO advance chemical industries
2. Zeppelins stay for long time the largeness Aircraft in World
3. the German Fleet will build only bigger Battleships
4. No replacement with Synthetic, the German Empire just absorb the French colonies into the Empire
5. No chemical weapon research.
6. No Tanks, but a heavy mechanized infantry with Trucks and armored cars
POD 2# USA stay neutral in the Great War
The German troop manage to win the War in East, but the Frontline in west stay stabile
the exhausted enemy signed a armistice agreements 1918
the War turn in to a Cold war for next 15 years
1. More advance chemical industries.
2. Aircraft evolve faster an replace the Zeppelins
3. heavy R&D in U-boat. (battle and transporter) and remote control Torpedoes
4. Replacement for item that were shortages in the war with Synthetic
5. More chemical weapon research into Sarin, Zyklon B
6. R&D in Tanks include "super-heavy tank" armed with big artillery guns
7. R&D on new weaponsystem like rockets
your to choose SPJ
BlondieBC
Banned
I see the France/UK/Russia broke after a loss with Germany having the largest military budget. Germany would do some tank research, but since the won with Infantry, Artillery, and maneuver, I think they have a lesser focus here. It is not no focus, but maybe half as much R&D as the French did IOTL, with the balance going to things like flamethrowers, chemical weapons (WW2 with nerve gas), etc. Basically Germany will fund what worked for them, first.
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Having the POD later at a time such as that seems to create more oppertunities to advance a wider range of technology so I'll go for a POD like the one you suggested with a neutral USA. So where can we go from there?
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Having the POD later at a time such as that seems to create more oppertunities to advance a wider range of technology so I'll go for a POD like the one you suggested with a neutral USA. So where can we go from there?
A Great War with analog to the Thirty Years' War ?
that last one start in 1618 and end in 1648, but was interrupt by periods of no combat.
the Great War could end also, interrupt by Cold war periods, were the parties can recuperate
Deleted member 1487
Really? I mean come on, the German military had pretty much given up on the technology and the 1930's version had to be heavily subsidized to make it remotely profitable. I really think it was a stunt that the Germans ITTL wouldn't bother with, especially because they actually can make airplanes ITTL instead of having restrictions like Versailles. Also military advances in aeroplane technology would boost German civilian aviation that much more, making it even less likely that airships would be invested in.
BlondieBC
Banned
IMO, WW1 and WW2 are best viewed as one war.
The war starts in 1912 with the first and second Balkans war. Fighting ends in Turkey in 1924. Most countries take a 11 year break, then the tension starts up again, and fighting goes on for another 10 years.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Would a German victory in WWI actually butterfly the existence of the V1 and V2 rockets? OTL Treaty of Versailles did forbid the German Army from possessing heavy artillery, so German scientists had to develop the V1/V2 rocketry. I'm not sure if jet fighters would even still be introduced.
Except that they will recognise the potential of the tank as something that can break stalemate. Oh sure, nothing will come of it by 1920 (good enough engines just aren't available), but I wouldn't be sure of 1930.
Except not, if the Germans know the French are putting big bucks into tanks, even if they don't do it themselves, they're going to put wads of cash into something to defeat tanks.
Best to quote french field marshall ferdinand foch, this is what he said on the versailles treaty: This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years (unfortunately he was right).
to an extent you could even say that the Franco-Prussian war, WW1 and WW2 are one war.
BlondieBC
Banned
He was wrong by 65 days
I do see the point on the Franco-Prussian, but i would have a separate wars. But, IMO, it is just wrong the way WW1 and WW2 are viewed as separate wars by some american history books.
BlondieBC
Banned
Yes, really. I did not say the Zeppelin would be better than the airplane, but that the Airplane takes longer to replace the Zeppelin.
With a German victory, the Germany and the Zeppelin company are in much better financial shape. Once the war ends, the Zeppelin company will again focus on commercial markets. I can see a lot more than two passenger Zeppelins in the 1930's. I can see them being used into the 1950's on limited routes and even being used today on some tourist routes. A Zeppelin could provide a wonder experience on something like the Inner passage of Alaska, the Grand Canyon, etc. Do you believe in a Germany win scenario that only two post war passenger Zeppelins would be built, and they would have an operating life of only a few years? I can't see that scenario, and I would be interested on how you see the scenario unfolding. And how/why Germany scraps the Zeppelins after the war instead of continued naval usage or civilian commercial usage.
Now what you say is true if you look at it from the Army perspective. By very early 1915, it was clear Zeppelins could not be used against fortress like Liege or Verdun to any real effect, and airplanes were used. In 1915, it is clear they are not a good interdiction tool against items like railroad bridges. By 1916/1917, regular bombers are beginning to replace them on strategic bombing of Paris and London. So yes, they are not a land based weapon, and were a waste of resources for the Germans except the British wasted even more resources defending against them.
The naval picture is different. They were very useful, and I believed they were used until the very end of the war successfully. They went out with the High Seas Fleet at Jutland, and with better weather conditions for the Zeppelins would have been a major help. On a clearer day, they give the High Seas fleet several hours to half a day warning on the approach of the main body of the Grand Fleet, and would have give the VizeAdmiral a chance to either deploy in a more favorable tactical situation or safely retreat to port. On clear weather days (admittedly, under half the time), the Zeppelins made it very difficult to approach the German bases with large forces undetected. Not impossible, but harder. Zeppelin steered the U-boat to the "Live bait" squadron. I see no reason in a German win with the ship already built, that they would just be all scrapped by the mid 1920's. When radar is invented, the become even better warning system. And Zeppelins were cheap in men and material compared to even a single light cruiser.
IOTL, Pearl Harbor probably is not attacked if the USA has radar capable Zeppelins. Even with just visual Zeppelins, the Japanese would likely have rethought the attack. Zeppelins would have been useful protecting American Coastal waters in 1942 from U-boats. A Zeppelin with radar gives the Prince of Wales an hour warning on the approaching the Japanese Planes, and could have been 50-100 mile south of the PoW. A Zeppelin would be good in a role such as finding the Bismark.
Zeppelin are not a magic bullet, but like PT boats and scout planes, are very useful in certain situations. If you have a source where the Germans had decided to abandon using naval Zeppelins before the war ended, I would be interested. The fact that they were on the banned weapon lists, not limited weapon list, indicates that either the French or British thought they were still useful weapons in 1919.
As to the German military giving up on the technology, I show that to be late in the very late 1930's, and Germany had no real navy to speak of, so there was no need for a naval Zeppelin. As to the subsidies, there is often an economies of scale, and likely not having the interruption in usage means they scale is large enough to make practical. It would be like modern dual use technology, the military pays the capital costs, and the private sector is paying close to marginal costs. With the High Seas Fleet still in existence,and possible major overseas Naval base (lot depends on POD), i don't see why the Germans abandon a useful tool as quick as OTL.
Germany has more money than OTL (depending on when they win, if its in 1916, it's a lot more), and no surrender conditions, so even though tanks would get a smaller proportion of the available funds, I'd say they'd probably get as much or more than OTL.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
If Germany has no real navy, then who's the dominant naval power among the Central Powers? Austria-Hungary has no navy to boast, the Ottoman Navy is also marginalized, and all of Germany's enemies are good at projecting sea power.
I think that in this one, the Germans would build up their battlefleet using the lessons learned from Jutland, rather than use their submarines(assuming that they have better luck at Jutland). Also, what would the Washington Naval Treaty look like ITTL?