Central Powers Victory leads to isolationist US

[backwardscompatibility]

What if the central powers won WWI and the embarrassing defeat leads to a more isolationist america that probably leans towards libertarianism or at least a less interventionist government?

[Color-Copycat]

Are we talking a First World War that never sees US involvement, or what?

[BlondieBC]

Welcome to the board.

Like most WW1 questions, it all depends on the POD. What was the cause of the CP winning? It was a very fluid war.

[backwardscompatibility]

The US does get involved but losses badly. I know a lot of people say that Germany would of never won with US involvement but its possible.

[WeisSaul]

Short of a discovery of the atom bomb a 28 years early, I highly doubt Germany could beat the US, with a ready army of 4 million men and then some, with the war weary forces it had.

The US was dropping propaganda over German cities saying that 1 million men were prepping in Paris, and 10 million were lining up in American ports. Not only are you outnumbered, but Germany's army was becoming increasingly demoralized and tired. They really couldn't have defeated the allies once the United States became involved.

[Popvox]

Originally Posted by backwardscompatibility

The US does get involved but losses badly. I know a lot of people say that Germany would of never won with US involvement but its possible.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to remove US involvement altogether? That way not only do you have a plausible CP victory scenario, but you also have the US being more isolationist in the first place. You'd proably need a pre-war POD for this though.

[Snake Featherston]

This isn't going to happen. The reality of Germany taking over Europe, shackling its economies to itself, and using brute force to sustain this will lead the USA to the kind of military it has now in peacetime then. No amount of "but they aren't Nazis" argument works as while they're not Nazis the Imperial Germans still wanted Germany to mooch off of the rest of Europe. Any USA that sees this will *immediately* start altering its entire view of its security. As there is no realistic means to limit a USSR's existence in a long CP WWI scenario, you'll see an inversion of OTL WWII with the USSR, UK, and USA fighting the realistic German domination of Europe and the German Empire revealed to be a house of cards.

[WeisSaul]

Originally Posted by Snake Featherston

This isn't going to happen. The reality of Germany taking over Europe, shackling its economies to itself, and using brute force to sustain this will lead the USA to the kind of military it has now in peacetime then. No amount of "but they aren't Nazis" argument works as while they're not Nazis the Imperial Germans still wanted Germany to mooch off of the rest of Europe. Any USA that sees this will *immediately* start altering its entire view of its security.

Plus one of Kaiser Willhelm's many crackpot schemes was to beat up the US and take Boston for a German port city.

[Graf v. Klugerman]

Originally Posted by backwardscompatibility

The US does get involved but losses badly. I know a lot of people say that Germany would of never won with US involvement but its possible.

I think it is possible, but maybe not with a

US does get involved but losses badly

The German offensives in early 1918 lacked a strategic goal. Somehow you need better political leadership in Germany, and better planning from OHL.

Let us say Ludendorff somehow is replaced, and perhaps von Mackensen orPrince Rupprecht or ??? is made supreme commander.

Let us grace this new commander with a stronger vision then Ludendorff and the Spring Offensive succeeds in siezing the channel ports and isolating the BEF. And let's say after these gains in the Spring, the Germans are able to defeat the first American forces. (A crushing defeat against at that time a small and less experienced AEF....a division or two loss)

This is the hard part: a sensible German leadership now requests an armistice. (April-May 1918) Germany is in a stronger position then in October 1918 OTL, and the British blockade is lifted.

The peace restores the 'status quo ante bellum' in the West, the Balkans, Mesopotamia, and Africa. This is a "victory" for Germany, considering the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, and restores Germany's African empire. It is satisfactory to the French, as it results in the evacuation of German troops from France. No reparations on either side.

Impluasible, but not impossible.

So, US stays out of the war for 3 years, joins the war, suffers a minor (compared to the Associated powers) but significant defeat in the field. Political isolationism is a likely outcome of this (even in OTL, the USA rejected the League of Nations) but, renewed trade with Europe will occur. The economic consequences could be interesting as both Entente and Central Powers will be likely borrowing heavily from the USA to rebuild their respective societies. Does that lead to economic recovery, or collapse from the easy credit. Trade argues against isolationism, and as a maritime trading nation, and given the lessons learned from the British and German naval warfare from the War, there will be a strong push for a maintaining a strong Navy. This could also have interesting results, as the USA military planners may see England as much of a maritime threat.