Pop Culture Timelines Go-To Thread

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by vultan

Added it in- and since it was technically first, it goes first on the list (but don't worry, Brainbin, your effort is still mentioned as the one that started the flood of pop culture timelines recently).

Would you mind changing my description to something like:

An earthquake in 1986 Tokyo leads to major changes in pop culture, technology and videogames from James Bond to Star Trek to Nintendo….

That hits some of the high points of the openings parts of the timeline .

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Would you mind changing my description to something like:

An earthquake in 1986 Tokyo leads to major changes in pop culture, technology and videogames from James Bond to Star Trek to Nintendo….

That hits some of the high points of the openings parts of the timeline .

Your wish is my command...

[Brainbin]

Originally Posted by vultan

Added it in- and since it was technically first, it goes first on the list (but don't worry, Brainbin, your effort is still mentioned as the one that started the flood of pop culture timelines recently).

I really wouldn't mind Cronus Invictus being listed ahead of That Wacky Redhead in the normal course of events - but can we really call a timeline that's been on hiatus for more than two years "active"? I was thinking that maybe it could head a section of dormant/abandoned timelines instead. And then, of course, there can also be a section for completed timelines, for whenever one of us actually finishes.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Would you mind changing my description to something like:

Since Electric Monk opened the floodgates, I would also like to ask if you could tweak the description for my timeline very slightly:

-POD: In 1966, Lucille Ball, of I Love Lucy fame, has another dream of her late friend Carole Lombard, who convinces her to quit acting for good and focus on producing. As a result, Desilu Productions is not sold, leading to some interesting consequences...

Thanks for being such a great curator

[Archibald]

I suggest this thread should be "pinned" ontop of the post-1900 section (much like the Sealion thing, dare I say).

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Archibald

I suggest this thread should be "pinned" ontop of the post-1900 section (much like the Sealion thing, dare I say).

Thanks!

[John Fredrick Parker]

WI Francis Ford Coppola directs Patton? Doesn't direct The Godfather? WI Stanley Kubrick makes Napoleon? Adapts Lord of the Rings?

[Brainbin]

Oh wow, they actually stickied this thread? Thank you to those responsible!

(And remember, vultan, with great power there must also come great responsibility.)

Originally Posted by John Fredrick Parker

WI Francis Ford Coppola directs Patton? Doesn't direct The Godfather?

Coppola is a New Hollywood man through and through, so however he achieves his rise, his fall will result from the exact same combination of hubris and wretched excess that capsized him (and others) ITTL. (If it's not Apocalypse Now that kills him instead, of course.)

Originally Posted by John Fredrick Parker

WI Stanley Kubrick makes Napoleon?

That depends on when he makes it, and who the lead actor might be.

Originally Posted by John Fredrick Parker

Adapts Lord of the Rings?

It would be interesting to see him getting started on the project within Tolkien's lifetime - he definitely strikes me as someone who would take a very active interest in the film's development, and the arguments between the two of them could become the stuff of legends.

[John Fredrick Parker]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

That depends on when he makes it, and who the lead actor might be.

I was thinking 1972 release; Kubrick was thinking David Hemmings for the title role...

[statichaos]

What if Genevieve Bujold stayed on Star Trek: Voyager? Perhaps more interesting, what if she quit after the first several episodes were in the can rather than during the taping of the pilot?

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

It would be interesting to see him getting started on the project within Tolkien's lifetime - he definitely strikes me as someone who would take a very active interest in the film's development, and the arguments between the two of them could become the stuff of legends.

Think of the arguments Kubrick and Steven King had in the making of The Shining, only on a larger scale.

[vultan]

Originally Posted by statichaos

What if Genevieve Bujold stayed on Star Trek: Voyager? Perhaps more interesting, what if she quit after the first several episodes were in the can rather than during the taping of the pilot?

For anyone who wanted to know how that would turn out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0

Honestly, for as much hate Kate Mulgrew gets, at least she played her character well. Sure, Janeway wasn't very well written, but Mulgrew gave a shit. Bujold obviously doesn't care.

Now, playing along with your scenario, if she leaves fairly early in the series, but after a substantial number of episodes (somewhat similar to the situation Denise Crosby left TNG after she left the show), I'd imagine the writing team would be forced to commit to killing off Nicole Janeway (Nicole was the original name for the character), and assign either Chakotay or Tuvok as Captain.

...in fact, it would be an interesting way to use that dynamic, a possible power struggle between Chakotay and Tuvok, as a way to play off the Starfleet and Marquis elements of the crew. Unfortunately, I don't think the writers would actually be willing to take a risk like that.

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by vultan

For anyone who wanted to know how that would turn out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0

Honestly, for as much hate Kate Mulgrew gets, at least she played her character well. Sure, Janeway wasn't very well written, but Mulgrew gave a shit. Bujold obviously doesn't care.

Now, playing along with your scenario, if she leaves fairly early in the series, but after a substantial number of episodes (somewhat similar to the situation Denise Crosby left TNG after she left the show), I'd imagine the writing team would be forced to commit to killing off Nicole Janeway (Nicole was the original name for the character), and assign either Chakotay or Tuvok as Captain.

...in fact, it would be an interesting way to use that dynamic, a possible power struggle between Chakotay and Tuvok, as a way to play off the Starfleet and Marquis elements of the crew. Unfortunately, I don't think the writers would actually be willing to take a risk like that.

I'm not sure...the fact is that at the time, the fledgling network UPN had sunk one hell of a lot of money into what was meant as their flagship program. Combine that with the desire of the producers to at least try to make the character dynamics believable in the first couple of seasons, and I can see the power struggle happening. How much they played it up, and how soon they'd resolve it in favor of other story arcs, is up for debate.

[vultan]

Originally Posted by statichaos

I'm not sure...the fact is that at the time, the fledgling network UPN had sunk one hell of a lot of money into what was meant as their flagship program. Combine that with the desire of the producers to at least try to make the character dynamics believable in the first couple of seasons, and I can see the power struggle happening. How much they played it up, and how soon they'd resolve it in favor of other story arcs, is up for debate.

Right, but it seems like during it's OTL run Voyager went out of it's way to avoid any risks and just be TNG 2.0. It would be interesting, yes, but it would require some secondary PODs as well.

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by statichaos

I'm not sure...the fact is that at the time, the fledgling network UPN had sunk one hell of a lot of money into what was meant as their flagship program.

23 million dollars for the pilot. Inflation adjusted it cost more than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn.

However with the writer's they had certainly have no ability to pull off anything like what you suggest. If they try, I imagine Voyager will just be even worse than OTL.

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by vultan

Right, but it seems like during it's OTL run Voyager went out of it's way to avoid any risks and just be TNG 2.0. It would be interesting, yes, but it would require some secondary PODs as well.

They could flow organically from the original POD.

We start with Bujold taking off after a few episodes are in the can, as stated. Paramount isn't going to just stop production on the program they've spent so much time and energy developing, so it's decided that things will continue. A script is quickly developed to fill the gap: Captain Janeway dies on an away mission, sacrificing herself for a noble cause, obviously saving her crew in the process. Chakotay fills the captain's chair. While uncertain about the situation, Tuvok initially accepts him as the new Captain out of a respect for the chain of command.

Back in the real world, though, actor Tim Russ is somewhat uncertain over this development, and asks the producers if things would really go so smoothly. He specifically points at Deep Space 9 as an example of positive storytelling stemming from outright friction between the characters. Robert Beltran agrees with him. Not wishing to cause any further problems on a set already thrown into chaos by the departure of their lead actress, the producers promise them a story arc that will address these issues.

Back in the Voyager universe, friction begins to develop even further between the former Maquis members and their shipmates, as many of those who stayed with Starfleet are chafing under the idea of serving under a Captain who turned his back on The UFP. While Tuvok initially attempts to hold the line, he is slowly swayed by the logic of the arguments of his crew. However, he is a Vulcan who plays by the rules, and he continues to support the Captain for the rest of the first season...until the season finale.

At the end of the first season, Voyager runs across a communications array that enables them to contact Starfleet in something approaching "real time". The technology itself is far in advance of current Federation capabilities. All that the crew knows for sure is that they're only going to be able to use it a few times to send important messages back "home", and perhaps receive a message or two in response.

There is indeed one message from Starfleet that comes on the viewscreen: Captain Janeway's pardon of the Maquis members of the ship was totally unauthorized. As she is no longer in a position to defend her actions due to her noble sacrifice, a decision has been made at the highest levels: "Captain" Chakotay's field promotion has been rescinded. He and all other former members of the Maquis are to consider themselves on a temporary probation until the ship reaches Earth, but they are not to be placed in any positions of authority.

As the tension between the Maquis and Starfleet aboard Voyager reaches a fever pitch, Tuvok calmly informs Chakotay that he, Tuvok, is now taking charge of the ship per Starfleet orders. B'elanna Torres, now on the bridge, pulls her weapon and aims it at Tuvok.....

"To Be Continued...."

BUM BUM BUM! BUM BUM BUM!

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

23 million dollars for the pilot. Inflation adjusted it cost more than Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn. However with the writer's they had certainly have no ability to pull off anything like what you suggest. If they try, I imagine Voyager will just be even worse than OTL.

(I figure you missed my post because you were writing.) They simply don't have the writer's. The only POD to make Voyager work is fire Berman and Braga and most of the writing staff and bring in new people. With 23 million dollars on the line, a budget greater than the first or second best Star Trek movie ever made, along with the launch of a brand new network riding on their show the staff churned out… "Caretaker". A dull episode with multiple massive plot holes that didn't even have good SFX. (And I watched it the first day it aired.)

Tim Russ and Robert Beltran can ask for interesting stuff all day long, they didn't get it IOTL (no idea if they asked) and even with the shake-up the producers might promise the moon but if they're relying on the same OTL writers… it doesn't matter. Even the interesting episodes of Voyager tended to have poorly written dialogue and the like.

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

(I figure you missed my post because you were writing.) They simply don't have the writer's. The only POD to make Voyager work is fire Berman and Braga and most of the writing staff and bring in new people. With 23 million dollars on the line, a budget greater than the first or second best Star Trek movie ever made, along with the launch of a brand new network riding on their show the staff churned out… "Caretaker". A dull episode with multiple massive plot holes that didn't even have good SFX. (And I watched it the first day it aired.)

Tim Russ and Robert Beltran can ask for interesting stuff all day long, they didn't get it IOTL (no idea if they asked) and even with the shake-up the producers might promise the moon but if they're relying on the same OTL writers… it doesn't matter. Even the interesting episodes of Voyager tended to have poorly written dialogue and the like.

Oh, I'm not saying that the dialogue would be good. Crap writers are crap writers. However, I do think that pressure from actors under these chaotic circumstances would likely be more effective than IOTL, and could lead to somewhat more interesting stories.

Actually...you want to make this work? Paramount is VERY unhappy with Brannon and Braga losing their lead actress so soon into a series, and strips away much of their authority in favor of...hmm. Who would be interesting?

[vultan]

Originally Posted by statichaos

Oh, I'm not saying that the dialogue would be good. Crap writers are crap writers. However, I do think that pressure from actors under these chaotic circumstances would likely be more effective than IOTL, and could lead to somewhat more interesting stories.

Actually...you want to make this work? Paramount is VERY unhappy with Brannon and Braga losing their lead actress so soon into a series, and strips away much of their authority in favor of...hmm. Who would be interesting?

To put the series in the direction closer to what you're thinking of, probably Ronald D. Moore, which would lead to some interesting changes on DS9.

But still, I highly doubt the circumstances would cause Paramount to kick Berman out of the franchise. Maybe Braga, but not Berman.

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by statichaos

Actually...you want to make this work? Paramount is VERY unhappy with Brannon and Braga losing their lead actress so soon into a series, and strips away much of their authority in favor of...hmm. Who would be interesting?

Ronald D. Moore. As much as BSG went downhill (and the ending was hilariously stupid) if Brannon is fired—him and RDM has a massive falling out, they used to be writing partners—and Moore winds up in charge for whatever reason there'd be a pretty jump in quality, and Star Trek: Voyager doesn't need long-term plotting or lots of religion so Moore's weak points are left out.

Edit: Obviously vultan and I are on the same page. I would agree that I just don't see how it happens though, Moore isn't senior enough… unless he and Brannon remain on good terms and stage a palace coup against Rick Berman with Michael Piller's backing.

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by vultan

To put the series in the direction closer to what you're thinking of, probably Ronald D. Moore, which would lead to some interesting changes on DS9.

But still, I highly doubt the circumstances would cause Paramount to kick Berman out of the franchise. Maybe Braga, but not Berman.

Okay, Braga's out. Berman is still in, but his influence is much diminished per direction from the studio. Berman isn't happy about this, but he still has an Exec Producer credit, and some say over how things go.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Ronald D. Moore. As much as BSG went downhill (and the ending was hilariously stupid) if Brannon is fired—him and RDM has a massive falling out, they used to be writing partners—and Moore winds up in charge for whatever reason there'd be a pretty jump in quality, and Star Trek: Voyager doesn't need long-term plotting or lots of religion so Moore's weak points are left out.

Edit: Obviously vultan and I are on the same page. I would agree that I just don't see how it happens though, Moore isn't senior enough… unless he and Brannon remain on good terms and stage a palace coup against Rick Berman with Michael Piller's backing.

I'd say that Piller just wants the show to go on, Braga leaves under pressure from Paramount, Moore essentially jumps into his place, and (as stated) Berman's actual role is diminished after a "come to Jesus" meeting with studio heads, something along the lines of when NBC sat down with Jay Leno and Helen Kushnick.

There's going to be a HUGE legal kerfuffle over contracts and the like, but that's why studios have lawyers on retainer. Braga could conceivably even be bribed to let it drop with a good development deal ("Hey, Brannon, you're wasting your talent on someone else's franchise. How about we help you develop your own, original ideas?"), especially if the alternative is an ugly legal battle that would end up involving a number of people he'd like to work with again someday.