Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: After 1900

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old February 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM
Xgentis Xgentis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Belgium, Wallonia
Posts: 1000 or more
I wonder if France and Germany would start a reconciliation policy in my opinion the Polish-Ukrainian adventure in USSR will fail really bad and put the soviet in an early position of strenght that could scare the west forcing them to put aside their difference.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old February 5th, 2012, 12:41 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
As things stood neither of the rulers of the two countries mentioned was willing to allow their military to start a war with the Soviet Union. King Stefan of Poland realized that the time for great risk was over. If one were to crush the Soviet Union then it should have been done 4 years ago or last year if the Germans had been willing to join. No it was better to build the defense of the Union and to strengthen the alliance with the Ukraine.
The Ukraine was going through reforms as its ruler attempted to make conditions better for the people. He was attempting to undermine the soviets. So far his total control of the military and reforms that he had made had moved the country away from the Soviet Union.

Surprisingly it was the emerging Fascist movement in Italy that was having an impact on the Ukraine.
The key to keeping the Ukraine from falling into the Soviets hands were to improve things for the people. Wilhelm had so far done that and had united the opposition to the Soviet efforts to establish a hold in the country.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old February 5th, 2012, 05:29 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Arriving in Kiev was the Deputy Italian Foreign Minister Dino Grandi . He signed a trade agreement with the Country as well as an arms agreement. It was the first agreement signed with a former part of Russia.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old February 5th, 2012, 08:17 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Kaiser Rupprecht had attempted to establish better relations with France. Most of the problems that had caused problems had their roots in the annexation of territory taken after the Franco-Prussian War. Alsace -Lorraine's return to France had ended most of that. A Commission in 1924 oversaw the establishment of a border.
However, France's recognition of the Soviet Union resulted in problems for both countries. The leftist government was to result in a failure to take the steps needed to really create hope for strong relations between the two Nations. Prime Minister Paul Painlie's government created strong doubts in Germany that the French were willing to move forward.

In Poland Prime Minister Grabski carried out reforms.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old February 6th, 2012, 01:48 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
1925 saw the increasing interest by Italy in the Kingdom of the Ukraine. Italy was interested in the purchase of coal and possible investment opportunities in the Ukraine. The Ukraine saw the construction of the first Italian design automobile and truck plant. Jobs were a key way to improve the economy. In some way the Ukraine began to emulate Fascist Italy. Neither The Austro-Union nor Germany was happy about the inroads that Italy was making but if they were unhappy there were those in Moscow that were furious. It appeared that the government of the Ukraine were destroying the possibility of the Soviets destroying the country from within. A stronger Ukraine would also mean that any invasion would be quite coastly.
The Polish-Lithuanian Union also had good relations with Italy but the King had no desire to see his country become a Fascist state, although there were some in the country's military that did believe that that might be the solution to making the country stronger. King Stefan and his oldest son believed that a democratic state would be far better and to that end he received support from cousin Karl and even from the German Kaiser, who was attempting to maintain warm relations with his eastern neighbor.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old February 6th, 2012, 04:27 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
The Soviet Union was continuing its industrialization. Despite the fact that he had yet to achieve control of the party Stalin was clearly getting his way. He was beginning to realize that the only way to achieve the power he wanted was to get rid of Trotsky. As long as Trotsky was the Minister of War he was safe from harm that Stalin might do to him. Stalin thus was attempting to push the other members of the politburo into giving Trotsky another post. The Soviets manufacturing of Steele was ever increasing. Much progress had been made in rebuilding Leningrad, as the party officials had renamed the Imperial capital. More Soviet warships were built. Now was not the time to deal with the Ukraine.
1926 Hans Luther of the German People's Party is sworn in as Chancellor. His party is dependent upon a coalition and by May his government will collapse but in the meantime he mets with French Prime Minister Aristide Brande of the French Republican-Socialist Party and attempts to settle so of the problems that have cropped up in Franco-German relations. France has diplomatic relations with the Soviet Regime, something that the Germans thinks is a mistake. France feels threaten by the Right winged Italian Government. It is pleased that the Germans also seem to distrust them.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old February 6th, 2012, 11:35 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Italy's Marshal Balbo arrive in the Ukraine leading a delegation . Talks are being held regarding more arms sale to the country. The Italians are helping with the construction of the Ukraine's weapons industry. It is also selling the country Italian made combat aircraft. Italian Warships and merchant ships are now visiting the Ukraine.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old February 7th, 2012, 03:19 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
It would appear that there were those in the Ukraine that were emulating Italy. The Ukraine now had its own Fascist Party. There were now at least 5 political parties in the Parliament. The King had incorporated those Ukrainian Nationalist into one of them..
The key to the survival of the nation was not only to create a strong military but to improve the living conditions of the people. In doing this he would undermine the ability of the Soviets to push the Ukrainian peasants toward the Soviet Union.
Unemployment was dropping drastically and wages had grown. Generally living conditions were better now than in the Soviet Union.
Needless to say the Ukraine government was determined to eliminate those that support a Soviet style government.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old February 7th, 2012, 04:16 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Germany was now selling large amounts of arms to the Republic of China. In Fact the German Military Mission in China had increased from perhaps a dozen personnel to now more than 350. The Germans were attempting to build a professional army capable of defending the country. It was a endless struggle to weed out corruption , the Warlord and Communist threat and the subtle threat by the Japanese Empire. Chang Kai Shek was slowly moving up the power ladder. Several officers were executed for stealing from the soldiers and having units that existed mainly on paper. While Chang wanted General and officers that were loyal to him the German advisers were able to finally make the point that they had to be intelligent so as to make the best use of China's limited number of well trained troops.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old February 7th, 2012, 11:20 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Scandinavia; The Scandinavian countries had not felt much of a threat since the last war. Sweden nearly entered the war when it appeared that the Russians were about to make a surprise attack on the Swedish Navy. Only a fast recall averted that disaster. Sweden's Monarch and military were very concern at what was going on in the Soviet Union. When the Red Army attacked the last outpost of the White in St Petersburg it sent some shock waves through Scandinavia. It was the Germans that had strengthen the Fins. Germany had provided the Finns with Guns from some of its predreadnoughts. These had allowed the Fins to provide their defensive line with 11inch and 5.9 inch guns.
While the Social Democrats in Sweden did not want to get the country involved in a war slowly came the realization that what happen to Finland would effect Sweden. Thus Sweden slowly began to form relationships with the governments of Finland, Estonia and Latvia aimed at strengthening the ability to defend themselves . Sweden approached Denmark and Norway aiming to create a powerful enough alliance as to cause any power to think twice about starting a war. The Swedish Military sought co-operation and the development of weapons that would benefit all of the nations.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old February 8th, 2012, 03:26 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Italian Made fighter planes arrived in the Ukraine as Italy attempted to increase its growing involvement in the country. Marshal Balbo made his second visit to the country. The Italians had assisted in the production of artillery pieces in the Ukraine.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old February 8th, 2012, 05:22 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
President Calvin Coolidge invited the major powers to Washington for a Naval conference in an attempt to prevent a naval arms race. The original conference in 1922 had had limited success. Germany's reduction of its fleet had resulted in the British limiting their naval construction program. Now it appeared that the Germans were attempting to modernize their fleet but of more concern was expansion by Italy, France and Japan and the possibility of a naval arms race spreading to Latin America.
The Soviet Union had recovered some of the Czarist Battleships that had been sunk. This had allowed them to have some capital ships. It had been expensive but the Soviets had yet to fully restore the capacity to turn out capital ships.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old February 8th, 2012, 09:56 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
The Delegates arrived in Washington for the Naval Limitation Talks. Arriving were the Prime Ministers of Great Britain, France, Japan, Italy's Deputy Foreign Minister and Naval Minister, Germany's Chancellor and the Naval Minister plus representatives from the Commonwealth. Germany was currently scrapping more if its older Battleships, although it still retain the Konig and Kaiser classes of Battleships. Planes were to start construction of a new battleship in 1928 or 1929. German plans were to either sell or scrap most of the older ships.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old February 9th, 2012, 01:12 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
President Coolidge addressed the delegates at a diner and urged them to make an effort to come to an agreement that would prevent a continuation of another Naval Arms race. Japan was pushing for a large amount of tonnage. The French expressed a wiliness to limit a growth in their navy but only if the Italians and German navies were limited.
Germany was not looking for a massive expansion of its fleet but it would want to modernize its fleet. That would mean a selling off or scrapping of the older Battleships and Battlecruisers armed with eith the 11 or 12 inch guns.
The Konig and Kaiser classes would for the most part be retired from service. There was currently plans to scrap or sell off all but 2 ships.
Great Britain had scrapped a number of ships after the end of the last war and now was already scrapping more. It had completed a second Hood class battle cruiser and a third one was under constuction but it had expressed a williness to scrap the 4th ship.
The US had scapped a lot of its olderships and had coverted two planned Battlecruisers to fleet carriers (Saratoga and Lexington) but it had two powerful battleships under construction.

The Austro-Czech_Croation Union still had the remains of the old Austro-Hungarian Navy. It had scrapped a number of older ships and had used their guns for coastal defense or fortifications. The Country was also working on designs for a new ship that would be faster and more capible than the current ships in its fleet.

Sweden had expredded an interest in the possible purchase of 1-2 of the older Battleships. If bought these ships woud be "modernize".
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old February 9th, 2012, 02:06 PM
abc123 abc123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris N View Post
The Austro-Czech_Croation Union still had the remains of the old Austro-Hungarian Navy. It had scrapped a number of older ships and had used their guns for coastal defense or fortifications. The Country was also working on designs for a new ship that would be faster and more capible than the current ships in its fleet.
It seems to me that it would be increasingly difficult for Austrian-Czech-Croatian Union to retain strength of former A-H Navy. After all, the country is now more than double smaller than A-H before, and really it isn't great power anymore so it doesn't needs large fleet anymore.
__________________
"And remember, Mr Churchill, that in the next war the Italians will be on our side".
"Well, that's only fair. We had them last time".
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old February 9th, 2012, 02:34 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
The Austro-Czech-Croatian Union has been reducing the size of the Navy. All of the Predreadnoughts have been scrapped, with the guns being used for fortifications. Currently plans call for the retaining of only 2 capital ships and maintaining mainly a force of cruisers, destroyers and torpedo boats.After all The Union has no overseas colonies and thus the only reason would be to protect the coastline from attack and shipping of goods from oversea to and from the Union.
Relations with Italy while not terrible are always a matter of Concern.Mussolini is attempting to improve relations with the Union as Italy has claims against the Serbs.

Anyway the Union is also considering eventually replacing its 4 dreadnoughts with German designed warships to be built in the Union. They would be armed with 8-11 inch guns and be faster and less costly to maintain and man. The former Empire had not lost any battleships in the war but the two newest battleships had suffered damage. Viribus Unitis and Tesetthoff were both considered to be operation

Last edited by chris N; February 9th, 2012 at 11:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old February 9th, 2012, 02:42 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
The Ukraine is now considering buying either 2 old German Emden II class cruisers or having the Italians build 2 modern cruisers for their navy. With the growing relations between the two nations Italy seems to have the inside track. Italian Warships have paid visits to the Ukraine and to Romania.
The Italians are hoping to dominate the Balkans.

Mussolini appears to be on a path to conflict in the Horn of Africa. He was revenge for Italian defeat by the Ethopians in the 19th Century. Italy has been trying to get the British to sell them British Somaililand. This would vastly expand their colonial holdings in the Horn of Africa.

Meanwhile Persia has been buying arms from both the Austro-Czech-Croation Union and Sweden for its army.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old February 9th, 2012, 11:32 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
Japan was quite angry that both the US and great Britain were attempting to limit their navy. Germany was also objecting to Japan's position, this gained the Germans some gratitude from Australia and New Zealand. The Netherlands delegate also was talking to the British, Germans and Americans that Japan needed to be limited .
The Netherlands had just started to work on designing its first Capital ship in nearly a century. It was now turning to the Germans for assistance.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old February 10th, 2012, 03:07 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
While the Western powers were arguing over Naval tonnage the Soviet Union was beginning to build its own tanks. The First was the T-18 and it was clear to see that it was based upon the French design. The tank was the first in a long line of Tanks designs that would move the Red Army forward.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old February 10th, 2012, 03:15 PM
chris N chris N is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Posts: 1000 or more
The Austro-Czech-Croatian Union really did not have the resources to maintain a large navy as well as a large Army and an air Force. As a result Only Minimum work had been done to repair the Battleships Prinz Eugen and Szent Istvan. By 1925 a decision was made that one of the Ships would be scrapped and parts used to maintain the two older ships.
Talks were held with the Germans about the possible construction of 1 or 2 new capital ships and the Scrapping of all of the older ships.
There was felt that 2 capital ships would be more than enough and that the real needs would be for some cruisers and destroyers plus some patrol boats.

Currently talks in Washington were attempting to abolish submarines.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.