Could the RN get two G3's instead of Nelson and Rodney?

[Landshark]

Is there any plausible way that the Royal Navy could get a pair of G3 battlecruisers instead of the two Nelson Class battleships they got in OTL as a result of the Washington Treaty?

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Landshark

Is there any plausible way that the Royal Navy could get a pair of G3 battlecruisers instead of the two Nelson Class battleships they got in OTL as a result of the Washington Treaty?

Landshark

I did read, from a usually very reliable source on a naval board, that the option was actually available. The US offered to allow 2 G3's instead of the treaty ships - although I think the RN would have had to give up one of the older BBs. This was because they thought the G3 was a BC design with only 8" side armour. [The RN had allowed details to leak of 8" thick plate but that was for the deck armour. Because of the advanced design the US, lacking experience from WWI, was unable to see how Britain could build a ship with that speed and armament with BB armour].

Unfortunately the technical details of the design wasn't known to the politicians and when the US made the offer to the head of the British delegation the latter didn't bother to check with his technical experts!

Steve

[sharlin]

They would have to re-write the WNT to allow ships to be bigger as well as making compromises with the USA and Japan allowing them to build bigger ships instead of the original 35k ton limit of the WNT.

If for example the big three were allowed to complete some larger vessels on the scale of the G3s the USN could get 2 of the South Dakotas, armed with 12 x 16 inch guns and the IJN could complete the two Tosa's as compensation. Financially the UK could probably afford the two G3s, and building them would save a lot of jobs.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by sharlin

They would have to re-write the WNT to allow ships to be bigger as well as making compromises with the USA and Japan allowing them to build bigger ships instead of the original 35k ton limit of the WNT.

If for example the big three were allowed to complete some larger vessels on the scale of the G3s the USN could get 2 of the South Dakotas, armed with 12 x 16 inch guns and the IJN could complete the two Tosa's as compensation. Financially the UK could probably afford the two G3s, and building them would save a lot of jobs.

sharlin

The UK could definitely afford two as it had already budgeted for 4 along with some extra equipment.

If the US and Japan were allowed to build additional new ships then I think Britain would definitely want some smaller 'treaty' 16" ships to match the 3 US and 2 Japanese ones that had already been built. This was the prime reason why having given up the G3's Britain was allowed to build Nelson and Rodney.

Steve

[sharlin]

Okay lets say that the WNT does get re-written to allow for the bigger ships, 2 x G3s and 2 x Nelrods, let the USN complete 2 x North Dakotas and the IJN to build the Kaga and Tosa.

It would require a HELL of a lot of wrangling though, possible but I dunno.

[Hoist40]

One problem is that the G-3’s were at least 5,000 tons bigger then the South Dakota’s and Tosa so the British will probably have to cut down the size of the G-3 or give up something else.

The British already have the largest warship in the world, the Hood, the USA and Japan will not be happy having the British have the 3 largest warships in the world.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Hoist40

One problem is that the G-3’s were at least 5,000 tons bigger then the South Dakota’s and Tosa so the British will probably have to cut down the size of the G-3 or give up something else.

The British already have the largest warship in the world, the Hood, the USA and Japan will not be happy having the British have the 3 largest warships in the world.

Yeah but we'll have the three largest warships in the world so what are they going to do about it?

Now if you'll excuse me I have a globe with every continent painted pink to fondle while crackling maniacally.

[sharlin]

Okay how about this.

Give up the hood, cancel her, she's already basically obsolete because of her armour scheme and rebuilding her to the new All or Nothing is simply to darn expensive.

I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but if we give up the Hood in return for building 2 x G3s, i'd take that.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by sharlin

Okay how about this.

Give up the hood, cancel her, she's already basically obsolete because of her armour scheme and rebuilding her to the new All or Nothing is simply to darn expensive.

I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but if we give up the Hood in return for building 2 x G3s, i'd take that.

So would I but Hood had been in comission for more than a year by the time the G3's were approved.

[David S Poepoe]

The Japanese apparently were holding out for a 420,000 ton limit but were authorized to also accept 315,000 - so the numbers would have been 5:5:4 rather than 5:5:3. At least before the US codebreakers read their messages and tipped the US off.

Check out:

http://www.avalanchepress.com/LooseLips.php

If the Japanese are get the battleships Kaga and the Tosa and the battlecruiser Amagi. Perhaps the British would be permitted to complete two G3s.

[Weaver]

Is it in fact true that the Hood was obsolete?

AFAIK her armour scheme was based on that of the Queen Elizabeths.

She was a fast battleship rather than a true battlecruiser.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Weaver

Is it in fact true that the Hood was obsolete?

AFAIK her armour scheme was based on that of the Queen Elizabeths.

She was a fast battleship rather than a true battlecruiser.

Yes she had good armour based on 1916/17 design but advances in weapons technology made her vulnerable to plunging fire almost as soon as she entered service.

Many in the Admiralty believed she was obsolete before she went into service but she was the only new British capital ship coming into service post WW1. The USN and IJN were already building bigger and better ships than anything Britain had.

Keeping Hood was something forced on them. Remember that there were supposed to be 4 of them. They cancelled three because they were deemed unsuitable.

[The Oncoming Storm]

I've often wondered if Hood had been converted into an aircraft carrier in the way that Lexington was. It might have served the RN better in that role rather than as a rather flawed battlecruiser.

[sharlin]

Would be possible I guess but you'd have to practically re-build her and that would be darn expensive.

[PMN1]

Quite a long thread here.

http://warships1discussionboards.yuk...of-the-Nelrods