|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
WI: Star Wars Franchise Without the Prequels
I remember growing up in the 90s and Star Wars was huge. After seeing a lull in the 80s a few years after Jedi, it came back roaring in the 90s and there were action figures and books and comics and series and toys and video games and just anything that could have a logo plastered over it, and people loved Star Wars. I can't even describe how much there was and just the universe of Star Wars from that 90s perspective, because you had to be there. But it could be summarized as Star Wars was cool, and the 3 films were seen as perfect. George Lucas was a God to anyone nerdy or interested in stuff like that, and was considered a very good artist who had made this great thing, and we loved him. The only way to fully experience this feeling of the era would perhaps be to go into one of the many comic book/collector's shops with loads of action figures and other stuff and just look around, or to watch Clerks.
And then the prequels came out. And the universe imploded. They weren't nearly as good as the original, which is not due to nostalgia, it is due to them just being not very good; they had major flaws, just erased preconceived notions we had about what that era was, and replaced those notions with something not very good. Frankly, what we thought that prequel era was was indeed better than what George Lucas' prequels were and what their story and set up was. And frankly, the aesthetic was not Star Wars. And the prequels really scarred the Star Wars universe and franchise, because fans didn't like the prequels by and large, the prequels were now the integral canon set up for the Original Trilogy and thus forced themselves onto the Original Trilogy (George Lucas is now and forever a little boy who became a whiny teenager who became Vader because he was a baby; if you thought he was a teenage to adult warrior who fought against Clone Armies and was a just and great man only to fall to the evil of the Dark Side later in life, well, tough), and George Lucas totally fell from grace to become either reviled or at least disliked, or considered incompetent and not what he was thought to be as this great artist. The prequels would also lead into the era of Lucas altering the Original films, much to the chagrin of the fans, and not even offering the original theatrical cut alongside his altered versions, which is I think the most despised part about the man for those who dislike him now. Its just a really sad period now, because Star Wars just isn't what it used to be and that golden age ended when we saw the Orange Jamaican Rabbitman. So the question becomes, what if George Lucas had not gone and made the prequels?
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
A lot of books are published that try to fill in the gap. IIRC, before TPM was released, Lucas's people made an effort to keep Star Wars writers from writing about that period. Without the prequels, a lot of novels will be published that deal with what the Clone Wars might have been.
__________________
|
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
There was coverage of the Clone Wars/pre-Empire era. I wasn't that aware of it, so I only know so much. I'll point out quickly I especially know the feel of what we thought that era was at least, which was basically Anakin was a badass fighter pilot who fought the Clones in the Wars, who looked like Sebastian Shaw, was a good man, but was led astray from his goodness by the dark side with either some horrible event making him a cyborg or him having himself altered to leave his humanity behind. And like Obi-Wan, he was probably a man who could be some sort of father figure, and was thus strong and rugged and reliable and true, until he lost himself to the dark side over something. Also, the Clone wars were a conflict fought against the Clones in a series of wars. And the Galactic Empire had been in power for a while and not like the 16 years or whatever it was show to be in the prequels. I know there was coverage of the era is published material though. I recall the Clone Wars were said to have involved a Republican war against the Mandalorians for one thing, at least in some material. When the prequels came out, that was altered into being a separate conflict instead of the Clone Wars. The Star Wars RPG also dealt with the pre-Empire era, and said some interesting things which I think said the Republic had become corrupt throughout the Clone Wars, and the figure of the Emperor rose up by promising he could stop this or something like that. Iron Liz has a video on the Star Wars RPG, so I'd watch that if you want to know more or know what was really said beyond my bad memory. I also know that it was leaked at some point that Vader had become so mangled through a fight with Obi-Wan on top of a volcano when he fell in. We really could have had a better Prequel trilogy. If Lucas had looked to this material, or even just listened to his fans and what they thought the pre-Empire era was like, he could have done it so much better and more concise with the original. And it's not like he knew himself anyway; he had sketches of certain things, but for the most part he pulled it all out of his butt.
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
Well I can't say for cetain, but if Star Wars was as popular in the 90's as you make it out to be, I can only imagine that at some point the temptation would be for someone to try and make more films to capitalize on it. And since the question in the OP is "What if George Lucas had not gone and made the prequels", that still means that someone else could make the prequels, or at least other films set in the Star Wars Galaxy. Of course, I've read George Lucas doesn't like that idea now, so if he would have given his permission for someone else to make more Star Wars films in the 90's, I'm not sure.
__________________
"This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given Use them and let's start trying To make it a place worth living in." |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
In 1998 Timothy Zahn reinvigorates the Star Wars franchise yet again with a very successful series of books detailing the earlier life of Darth Vader and Obi Wan Kinobi that is much better than the movies that exist OTL (a man can dream).#
Karren Travis is fired for incompetence early in her career.
__________________
|
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
It could happen that other films would be made, or even at some point the prequels would end up made in one form or another. Everyone wanted the prequels to be made (until they finally got them), and there were always these leaked rumors that he was finally doing it or talk about what it would be like when he finally did it, or if he was ever going to really do it. We pushed him into it, under the assumption he'd make us something good, and instead we got Jar Jar and Hayden Christensen. If Star Wars is out of his hands though, it will do better. It's just the truth. Lucas has good ideas, but he's not good at executing them, which the prequels and original trilogy proved. As it was, it was Lucas alone, not doing revisions, not being second guessed, not having a second opinion, and unleashing something badly directed (its said his only acting directions were "Faster" or "More intense"), with bad acting (since the actors got bad direction, and didn't take initiative with directing themselves and tweaking their characters like the Original Trilogy cast did), and a bad story covered in PS2 CGI. If he handed off responsibility and just hung back as a producer and screen writer, it'd go better. You would have more people in production going over things and checking things and tweaking things and throwing out what works and what doesn't, and Lucas would get suggestions and opinions and script revisions, and you would have a more competent director overseeing this, and if he has the ability to stand toe to toe with Lucas as an equal like Spielberg or Kershner, then it's all the better. Another director would be better than Lucas, because they'd at least, regardless of even if they aren't the best, give better direction, and would not make everything CGI. The problem with the prequels could be said to be the CGI. Firstly, when you unleash someone like that with the unlimited possibilities of CGI, the product tends to suck, because limiting them is necessary. I'm not sure why, but it just always seems to. Reigning it in at least a little bit is necessary. With Lucas, it was all CGI. Everything except the people. This leads into my second point which is, without Real Sets and Real Props, actors are lost. The actors were being told what they saw, and not reacting and existing in a universe they could feel real, because that universe was just blue screen. That was George's fanciful idea. And another director won't do that. I think the prequels are the only films that could be made though. That, or a sequel trilogy. I don't see films being made set in the Star Wars galaxy that aren't apart of the main trilogy. You could see TV projects and such. Certainly those existed.
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
Then the question is, how would anyone get his approval, or is that almost impossible? Granted, he could still be an executive producer or something like that, but his role in the actual making of the films would be minimal.
__________________
"This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given Use them and let's start trying To make it a place worth living in." |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
For a feature film, they couldn't. It's George Lucas' brand. Nobody coming out of nowhere saying "I wanna do the prequels" will make it to the front door before being turned away. If someone has an idea for a TV thing or Cartoon project or something, that's another matter. Any Alternate Prequels would consists of George saying he wants to do the prequels, but doesn't want to direct, and so he acts as producer and screenwriter, and a director comes on and a co-screenwriter comes on to help the writing and revise the script a few times over, and all the rest of the production crew and assorted people are hired. Basically what happened with the Original Trilogy after the first one. The director takes initiative and does everything, the screenwriter touches up and does revisions, the director will also likely make/request changes, and Lucas will stand in the background for approval. We could get some good directors. Lucas has made a lot of friends in Hollywood. In fact, rumors before the prequels actually came out said that Spielberg might direct or Ridley Scott or James Cameron.
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
__________________
"This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given Use them and let's start trying To make it a place worth living in." |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
If that happens a new generation of fans aren't recruited by watching Natalie Portman and seeing lots of CGI dumped on screen, plus the marketing machine that ran into overdrive between 1999 and 2005. Marketing was always the greatest strength of Star Wars and was always able to get people into the theatres even after most rational people knew it was just a pile Bantha droppings. Result, Star Wars remains the preserve of men in their 40's and 50's trying to tell younger people how great Star Wars was. |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Again, Star Wars was huge in the 90s. It recruited new fans back then, right up to the first prequel film's release. It was everywhere. You had Shadows of the Empire, Dark Empire, the Zahn novels, the Kenner toys, the Jedi Knight video game, and so on and so on and so on. And beyond that, it was just in the life blood of culture. Certainly everything of Star Wars fandom now (which I don't like, since its prequel BS covered in digital jism) is based on the time of prequels coming out, which in turn is based on the 90s Star Wars interest boom. Actually, the argument I'm still waiting to hear is that the 90s boom would putter out. I'm not sure if that's true, or if it was going to always be around. EDIT: It could be said the 90s boom never really ended, and the current interest is just the second wind in an ongoing continuance of popularity. I take that position since there was no break in popularity. It was the boom in the 90s, then the prequels came out because of that, leading to a second wind of sorts; one not necessarily needed since the first could have been strong enough to continue without it, but it marks a different era since the prequels changed a lot of things in the aesthetic of the fandom and popularity. I feel the prequels hurt it though, because they divided the fans so much, and weren't good so they hurt in that way.
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Emperor Norton I; January 6th, 2012 at 06:57 AM.. |
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
What I'm wondering is, even if Lucas doesn't make the prequels, would he still re-edit the original trilogy?
__________________
"This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given Use them and let's start trying To make it a place worth living in." |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Sci-Fi fantasy books, graphic novels and fan culture generally are a niche market. Without feature films the general population will pay no attention and it stays with sci-fi fantasy nerds quoting lines from Star Wars to each other. If there are no prequels then the Matrix has a clear run and its special effects and virtual reality mythology makes the original Star Wars look old fashioned. The LOTR trilogy and Harry Potter take over the imagination of both kids and parents and a new Sci-Fantasy genre emerges. As a result, Star Wars becomes part of the past and becomes increasingly quaint just like Star Trek TOS still has a lot of fans but the viewing figures on TV for that show has declined because the people who grew up it with are getting older and although many young people still like TOS they aren't numerous enough to replace them. Finally, you have to think globally. Vast numbers of people in Asia or even the former Soviet bloc never saw Star Wars or were exposed to it growing up. By having prequels in an era when globalization had spread and most Asian living standards had risen brought Star Wars fantasy lore to a whole new set of people. These people would then look at the originals. |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
If they don't make prequels, they make sequels, end of story. Star Wars is too much of a cash cow franchise to simply fade away, sort of like Pokemon has become. No matter what there are going to be sequels. This would likely be the result of Lucas deciding early on these movies were I, II, and III.
One nice butterfly from this could be Timothy Zahn writing the prequels *begins drooling in anticipation.* If this happens they will likely be far more respected, and the sequels might well integrate some of this into the movies. I doubt we would have a dozen Jedi Vader somehow missed during the purges just popping out of the woodwork. On the other hand Zahn's work wouldn't be as popular due to it clashing with the ideas people already had. For example, in sequels they could flip the roles around with the Rebellion now being the big power on the block, and the question becomes just how to actually take control of the entire galaxy, while doing it as peacefully as possible. Going hand in hand with this would be the fact the sequels would not be anywhere near as bad as the prequels were OTL for the simple reason people don't have it set in their minds as much how the story plays out. That was one of the big problems with prequels IMO, if you let the audience decide the backstory, which the original trilogy kind of did you will never live up to their expectations when actually making it. |
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
But I have a BRILLIANT IDEA. George Lucas goes so far as to write up his original outline of what the story of the prequel trilogy should be, as well as to plan out the plot of the first prequel film tentatively titled Star Wars: The Beginning (later in OTL retitled The Phantom Menace) ...but then, perhaps just after finding out that it won't be feasible to film them back-to-back-to-back (as originally planned), he changes his mind and decides not to spend the next decade of his life making another trilogy. BUT he doesn't want to abandon the prequel story entirely... so he decides to adapt it into a live-action television series instead. The series is comparable to The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles in how it relates to its parent film series: it is presented as a history, with episodes deliberately in anachronic order, and doesn't have the same lead actor in every episode (just as Young Indy mainly featured Teen Indy but also followed Child Indy, this series mainly features the young Obi-Wan Kenobi but also follows various other protagonists from all walks of life to show a broader canvas of the Star Wars universe as a whole and of how the Clone Wars and the Empire's rise to power affected everyone). The story for Star Wars: The Beginning becomes the two-episode series premiere. From there, Lucas (acting as executive producer and showrunner) hands his outline to the team of writers and basically says "This is what happens next -- now go in-depth and make it interesting." The series premieres in 1998, one year after the 20th-anniversary Special Edition re-releases, and lasts for seven full seasons until concluding in 2005. The last season is widely seen as a bit of an appendix to the show as a whole, as the sixth season finale had featured the climactic duel between Obi-Wan & Anakin/Vader on the rim of a volcano which led to Vader being encased in his suit, and had also seen the departure of the actor playing Obi-Wan; while the seventh season does shed a great deal of light on the story of the early Rebellion, as well as on the death of Leia's mother and her subsequent adoption, it is still widely regarded as an anticlimax. I'd just like to point out one thing: Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace has exactly the right appropriate amount of foreshadowing in its story for a TV series premiere episode. As the first film in a series of three it is an unconscionable waste of a film, given how little it has to do with the "saga" as a whole, but I firmly believe it would make for a great TV pilot.
__________________
Last edited by ColeMercury; January 6th, 2012 at 01:53 PM.. |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Torqumada |
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wounder how many that liked SW in 1999 went on to dislike them like me after the prequels?
|
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Plinkett reviews are a pretty excellent analysis of the flaws of the prequel trilogy (as well as the few good points). Here's one example: compare the presence of the lightsaber in the originals to the prequels; they're being lit up pretty much every other scene in the new movies - the action scenes and the visuals took far too much precedence over characters and story.
Without the prequels, I see a lot less attention paid to Star Wars, however. The prequels have served to elevate the originals even higher on their pedestal. Star Wars without all the new efforts put into it would have probably remained iconic and very popular but would not have the pervasive place it does today. |
|
#19
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
If he did do it, and he still refuses to release the Original versions, then fans will still be pissed. Quote:
I think Star Wars will take on a Wizard of Oz quality/continue to have it. It already did by the 90s, but I'm saying I think that will continue on without the prequels, with it constantly being reshown to a new generation, and them loving it, and it being rereleased several times over, and it being ingrained the culture. That's how it was before the prequels ever touched the screenplay page, and that's how I think it will be. It's a right of passage today to see Star Wars, and has been since it saw TV presentation and VHS release. Those people in the Soviet bloc will also see Star Wars in rereleases too and get it. Quote:
__________________
Star Trek: The Lost Fleet RPG
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Emperor Norton I; January 7th, 2012 at 02:31 AM.. |
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
Better acting, directing, and story writing
I too was a Star Wars fan like most other young people in the 1990s. The original trilogy had it all: relatable characters, frightening villains, high fantasy, and exciting battles. I've never watched Star Trek or read any of the Star Wars books; my only connection to science-fiction is through the Star Wars movies. What made those movies so enjoyable was the fact that they were "good" movies. From a film-making standpoint they earned high marks. The characters were especially strong. They were archetypal in a good way. Lucas (and the rest of the team) took familiar tropes and placed them in a fantastical universe. Luke was the reluctant hero who discovered himself in the process of the story. Darth Vader was the hero-turned-villain who ended up sacrificing himself for his son. Han Solo was the rogue with a heart of gold. Etc, etc.
Comparing the characters of the original trilogy to the prequels is just saddening. The villains are one-dimensional; the heroes boring. There is no depth to a Mace Windu or even an Obi-Wan. They are exactly who they appear to be. There is no discovering, no showing. Lucas tells us who they are. We don't see Anakin and Obi-Wan's friendship develop on screen. We hear it exists. We hear that they had some incredible adventures. But we never see it. Plus, there is no chemistry between Ewan Macgregor and Hayden Christensen. This leads to another key point: there is no true (i.e. relatable) protagonist. Obi-Wan is too distant, Anakin is too annoying, and Padme lacks more than one dimension. Luke was clearly the protagonist, and he evolved in each movie. The prequels lack that. The storytelling, action sequences, and general direction of the plot are all quite weak as well. But it all stems from the characters. At the end of Episode III, the audience should be screaming "NOOOO!!!!" when Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Instead, many thought "good riddance. That's what we came for, right?" This makes it clear to me that Lucas was chiefly focused on shoving as much CGI into each scene as possible to please younger fans. I'll admit that when I first saw the prequels I liked them. After all, I was young and the movies were "cool." People like me bought the toys, games, and various other merchandise that Lucas designed the films for. So, enough complaining. Time to think proactively. How can the prequels be salvaged? Well, to start with there needs to be a real change in who's in charge. Lucas is going to be a part of the process; no changing that. But his role can be limited. Since this is an alternate history website, let's say that Steven Spielberg offers to direct the movies. Lucas agrees. He stays on to be executive producer and churns out the first draft of the script. Spielberg reads it, notices the clear problems, and proposes that a team of professional script-writers are brought on to make some changes. Lucas accepts. He will still have final say on whether or not the changes are adopted, but I can't see him rejecting improvements. I believe that Lucas wrote what he did because simply believed it was the best script he could write. Some people aren't great fiction writers. If a better script was left on his doorstep, while still including the crucial elements, I believe Lucas would have accepted it. I also believe that no one in the production team for the prequels had the nerve or willingness to present a better script, or to challenge Lucas on anything. Spielberg could have done that, and if he had directed the prequels they would have been much better. P.S.: A lot of credit goes to Red Letter Media for helping zero-in on the core problems with the prequels. I'm not a film-maker or film-student. They are. |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|