The Whale has Wings

[PMN1]

Originally Posted by Kissinger

Ion Cannons!?!? (quietly disarms ion cannon and brings out the Doomsday device from ST) you were saying?

Well, he is an Astrodragon so ion cannon are completely plausible.

[Expat]

Originally Posted by perfectgeneral

But that was a REALLY good guess.

Third in the medal tables at this point. Surely the Russians will catch up soon?

See this is where you need the US: to contain the Russians in the events the two of us still scrabble over. We'll handle volleyball, women's gymnastics (with our little robots,) and keep them down the basketball standings. The boxing's all on Britain's shoulders, though.

[Tyg]

I'm not sure this has been asked, even if the importance of Malayan rubber has been mentioned. What's the effect on the allied homefronts if Southeast Asian oil, rubber, and metals are still available?

The US probably wouldn't need to ration gasoline at all (which IIRC was more about conserving tires than fuel), and that surely feeds into the economy in general. Given that US railways would be prioritized for mobilization and war industries, might this mean an early boost to road trucking?

There probably are a number of other knock on effects of rubber and fuel being generally available in terms of allied economies and war production. What else was rationed OTL that ITTL likely wouldn't need to be?

[Astrodragon]

Originally Posted by Tyg

I'm not sure this has been asked, even if the importance of Malayan rubber has been mentioned. What's the effect on the allied homefronts if Southeast Asian oil, rubber, and metals are still available?

The US probably wouldn't need to ration gasoline at all (which IIRC was more about conserving tires than fuel), and that surely feeds into the economy in general. Given that US railways would be prioritized for mobilization and war industries, might this mean an early boost to road trucking?

There probably are a number of other knock on effects of rubber and fuel being generally available in terms of allied economies and war production. What else was rationed OTL that ITTL likely wouldn't need to be?

Availability of Rubber will still be limited, as their is a shortage of shipping even once the Japanese are morced out of Malaya. I would expect to see similar rationing to OTL, BUT there is no need for the expensive artificial substitute to be developed in the US (although they may anyway, US politics is impenetrable..) The Empire will do fine, though

[Tyg]

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

Availability of Rubber will still be limited, as their is a shortage of shipping even once the Japanese are morced out of Malaya. I would expect to see similar rationing to OTL, BUT there is no need for the expensive artificial substitute to be developed in the US (although they may anyway, US politics is impenetrable..) The Empire will do fine, though

Ah! Forgot about the shipping!

Though once the Japanese are kicked out of the Malay barrier, there's no pressing need for convoys in the area unless the Japanese adopt an abrupt shift in submarine doctrine. That's something, at least.

[Astrodragon]

31st March

Long range reconnaissance planes indicate that the Japanese have started to improve the airbases captured in the Celebes. The indications are that this will allow more air support both of convoys and of army operations in the area. The RAF and RAAF are mainly engaged in Malaya; the USAAF is asked if it can start building up a force in the DEI and Malay barrier to help counter the projected Japanese air force.

General Yamashita sends a report to Tokyo requesting permission to pull back from Western Thailand and the Kra peninsular to concentrate his forces in the East. The appearance of additional Imperial troops in Kra means that if the attack through his centre continues, the troops to the west will be cut off, rolled up and lost. He reports that help or intervention by the Thai army is unlikely, as the government appears to be in political paralysis.

1st April

The Japanese Army resumes major attacks against the US and Filipino forces on Bataan. The 24,000 men there are on 1/4 rations and ill from food shortages and tropical diseases.2nd April

The aircraft carrier USS Hornet and escorting vessels, sail from San Francisco, California, with 16 USAAF B-25 Mitchell bombers of the Doolittle attack group on her deck; Hornet’s aircraft are in the hanger deck. That afternoon, Captain Mitscher informs his men of their mission: a bombing raid on Japan.

Yamashita receives a response to his request to withdraw. It is denied. he is ordered to hold and defeat the Imperial troops. The 'or else' is strongly implied in the communiqué. The Japanese government will pressure the Thai's to do what is expected of them, and an additional infantry division will be sent from the Home Islands to strengthen him. The missive leaves Yamashita depressed.

In Malaya the Australians are still engaged with the Japanese troops trying to hold their defensive lines. The fighting is reported as very intense. Alexander and Blamey have expected this, based on the way the Japanese have fought so far. The aim is to overextend them in counterattacks while punishing them with artillery and from the air. Once this is done, they expect and armoured attack to break through the Japanese lines and allow them to be rolled up (at least to the west)

2nd April

After long and acrimonious discussions between the army and navy, the Japanese have finally decided on an amendment to their strategy. It has been agreed that the most vital resource needed is oil. While there is some in the Celebes, the main sources available to them are in the DEI, Borneo and Burma. In order to capture and hold this vital resource, the following strategy has been decided upon.

(1) The air bases in the Celebes will be improved to allow land based aircraft to escort the invasion convoys and attack allies warships. Aircraft will be flown to the bases as soon as they are complete.

(2) General Yamashita has shown a lack of the spirit of Bushido in allowing himself to be driven back by the British. he is to be relieved, and reinforcements made available to the army from the Home islands and China to allow the attack into Malay to recommence - successfully this time. It is accepted this will be slowed by the monsoon, but it is expected this will hamper the enemy, and in particular his armour, even more. The air force will be reinforced to allow them to destroy the RAF in Malaya as part of the advance. Once the northern part of Malaya is secure, attacks into Burma will be made to capture the large oil fields there.

(3) In order to prevent the Royal Navy interfering with the invasion and supply convoys in the South China and Java Seas, it will have to be eliminated or driven off. This will be the task of the IJN, aided by aircraft based in the Celebes and later on Borneo and the DEI. It is estimated that the British have two fleet and one or two light carriers available. In order to attain local superiority, the 5 fleet carriers, as well as a sizeable force of battleships with their own carrier escort will be committed. Since the USN cannot be ignored, once this force has destroyed the British Far Eastern Fleet it will be moved east to do the same to the USN. While the operations are underway against the Royal Navy, the IJN's submarine fleet will cordon off the area to stop any US involvement.

(4) As soon as the IJN has cleared the RN out of the area, fresh convoys will land troops on Timor, Java and Borneo to crush the local defenders in detail. The carriers and land based air will eliminate the Allied air power on the DEI. Additional diversionary attacks will be made on Darwin to force the Australians to reinforce their homeland defences.

(5) The Carrier and Battle group will replenish and then attack the US island of Midway. It has been calculated that this will force the Americans to engage them, where they can be defeated and forced back to Hawaii and the West Coast.

In Java the defenders are getting ready to retake the island of Bali. The Japanese are estimated at under 3,000 troops, and there are still Allied forces on the island (although not engaging the invaders at present). It is intended to use about 6,000 men - split between Australians, British Commandoes and Dutch - with air and sea support. There are still Japanese aircraft in the area, and Somerville insists on fighter cover before committing a surface force in support. The attack will take place in a few days once suitable shipping has been assembled

[sloreck]

IMHO the Japanese will never get a chance to attack Midway. Their concessions to reality only go so far...and I expect their reinforcements to Malaya to be savaged enroute, and their army there to be chewed up to no avail.

The Doolittle raid will be a shock as OTL - the question is will it result in the Japanese keeping more of their already depleted (compared to OTL) air assets in Japan for home defense (one can hope so). Also, if the USN and RN coordinate, especially if the US code breakers get some good intel the US carrier force can kick the Japanese in the butt at the same time they are facing the RN...possibly even attacking the trailing BB force which will have only limited air support....

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

Availability of Rubber will still be limited, as their is a shortage of shipping even once the Japanese are morced out of Malaya. I would expect to see similar rationing to OTL, BUT there is no need for the expensive artificial substitute to be developed in the US (although they may anyway, US politics is impenetrable..) The Empire will do fine, though

???? but you have all that shipping carrying men and suupplies west from the us. In otl, diddnt that mossttly return empty? This isnt japan where army ships go from a to b loaded, returning empty while avy ships go b to a loaded, aalso returning empty!

[trekchu]

My my, they surely don't think small, do they?

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Errr.. LARGE oil ffields in burma?

Im sure they ranked relatively higher back then, but today they rank 74th in global oil production behind such major oil producers as france, denmark, japan and australia, and i didnt know those guys produced ANY oil.

Besides, any oil shipped from burma has to travel through the indian ocean, which the brits pretty much control at this point.

Surely the japanese would focus on the dei, particularly borneo, which they sort of control now, or at least have a hope of holding. Ok, maybe a poor hope, but burma is even nastier in terms of controlling the sealanes.

[stevep]

Astrodragon

So the Japanese are assuming that:-

a) The allies will allow the Japanese to complete the Celebes airfields and the Japanese will be able to deploy and supply a/c there.

b) That they will be able to transfer reinforcements to Malaya and supply them there, despite increasing allied pressure on supply lines.

c) That they will still have an army in Malaya by the time the reinforcements get there. Especially since their response to an army in danger of destruction is to remove the commander.

d) That they will also be able to send enough a/c to the region to overcome RAF resistance and keep them operating, despite their growing lack of fuel.

e) That the IJN will be able to overwhelm the RN forces in the region, helped [not] by the fact their underestimating the force by a factor of at least 50%.

f) That they will be able to launch a series of amphibious assaults despite the growing shortages of MS, escort vessels and fuel for both.

g) That having done all of this the IJN will then be able to take on the growing strength of the USN and drive them from Midway, which they will also be able to seize.

Then the Easter bunny will transport their entire army to the US so it can occupy the country.

I think of the seven above steps they would be lucky if they manage 1-2.

Steve

[Tyg]

Originally Posted by stevep

Then the Easter bunny will transport their entire army to the US so it can occupy the country.

No, don't be ridiculous. They'll be holding the army back to prepare for their invasions and occupations of Narnia, Númenor, and the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing. Much more practical.

[Alratan]

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

Availability of Rubber will still be limited, as their is a shortage of shipping even once the Japanese are morced out of Malaya. I would expect to see similar rationing to OTL, BUT there is no need for the expensive artificial substitute to be developed in the US (although they may anyway, US politics is impenetrable..) The Empire will do fine, though

With the Burma road open (and being upgraded), there really should be quite a lot of US shipping in the region with empty holds for the journey back to the states after unloading supplies intended for the Chinese in Burma.

[Geordie]

Originally Posted by Tyg

No, don't be ridiculous. They'll be holding the army back to prepare for their invasions and occupations of Narnia, Númenor, and the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing. Much more practical.

You forgot those decadent Himalayan kingdoms of Xanadu and Shangri-La...

[Astrodragon]

For all the hilarity, the Japanese aims are probably more practical than Marshall's ideas about invading France in 1942....

Actually, the plan is sensible in what it aims to do. The problem is the Japanese don't have the ships and planes to achieve it...

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

For all the hilarity, the Japanese aims are probably more practical than Marshall's ideas about invading France in 1942....

Actually, the plan is sensible in what it aims to do. The problem is the Japanese don't have the ships and planes to achieve it...

Yes, and several people here would react, perhaps have reacted, the same way to marshalls plan. What WAS he smoking?

[MattII]

I think the Japanese are about to hit a Midawy of sort, only this time it's going to affect both the navy, and the army.

[usertron2020]

16 days to Tokyo. Can't wait! Who is the CV escort for Hornet?

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by Geordie

You forgot those decadent Himalayan kingdoms of Xanadu and Shangri-La...

Um, wasn't Xanadu real? As in, Kublai Khan's capital?

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Yes, and several people here would react, perhaps have reacted, the same way to marshalls plan. What WAS he smoking?

The "Oh God, if Russia goes under, we could be facing a war of twenty years duration!" doobie. Not arguing his case, mind. It certainly was unworkable.