The Whale has Wings - Page 336

Gannt the chartist · #**6701** June 19th, 2012, 03:37 PM

Why would MacArthur be put in charge of what is likely to be for a good while yet a mainly CW operation based on Dutch territory with the principle mission (CW version) being the forward defence of India and Australia.

While Mac may be a big deal in the US to the rest of the world he is just an overage relic of WW1 - with limited combat experience (compared with his peers) and the guy that has monumentally screwed up the defence of the PI with a tendency to shoot strikers. An overage relic of WW1 who cant handle modern warfare. Lord Gort but not as successful.

I still think its more likely that Marshall will use this as an excuse to lower US troop commitment to the Pacific (those two NG divs) let the Navy fight its war and build up in Europe earlier.

Garrison · #**6702** June 19th, 2012, 05:52 PM

Leaving aside the merits of MacArthur OTL I just can't see him being given theatre command ITTL. Are the British and Australians really going to sign up for a man whose command has been overrun, with no small part of the blame falling on poor leadership, while they have been pounding the Japanese at every opportunity. Not to mention that US forces are a bit thin on the ground at present. I just can't see it happening unless there's going to be some serious political pressure from Washington.

Faralis · #**6703** June 19th, 2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernKiwi

First of all, signed up just to say that I think this is an excellent alt timeline and I am quite enjoying it.

From reading between the lines of some of SE Morrison's work, I got the impression that King thought that way after a couple of unescorted British convoys got worked over badly during the BoB panic when all the destroyers were held back to protect the UK.

In this timeline with less of an invasion panic and so more escorts being available, it would be entirely possible that this never happened and so King never forms that opinion.

This is interesting, King was mildly Anglophobe, but he was no idiot.

Astrodragon · #**6704** June 19th, 2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faralis

This is interesting, King was mildly Anglophobe, but he was no idiot.

No he wasn't.
he was STRONGLY Anglophobic.

Devolved · #**6705** June 19th, 2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

No he wasn't.
he was STRONGLY Anglophobic.

Most senior officers in the US navy were Anglophobic I think. Admiral Halsey (The idiot who charged into traps and typhoons) springs to mind. I think it's because when most of them were younger the RN was the chief rival and many were annoyed at British arrogance.

AgentOrange · #**6706** June 19th, 2012, 07:13 PM

...or American jealousy.

Faralis · #**6707** June 19th, 2012, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

No he wasn't.
he was STRONGLY Anglophobic.

I should have used

EDIT: Doesn´t matter, Its your story, so I´ll see how that bit ends

Expat · #**6708** June 19th, 2012, 07:54 PM

This continues to be an enjoyable and thorough TL.

Malaya seems awfully quiet right now. I understand the offensive isn't scheduled until the next convoy arrives, but they're not just sitting on their hands, surely?

Are those German pockets being resupplied by air OTL or are we seeing the results of fewer planes supplying North Africa?

Btw, to all of you from the Blessed Plot commenting on this thread, this is how I'm picturing you.

MattII · #**6709** June 19th, 2012, 08:24 PM

North Africa? There's not a German left in North Africa except in a POW camp.

Expat · #**6710** June 19th, 2012, 08:26 PM

Sorry, are the German pockets *in Russia* supplied by air by planes now available because there is no African front, or was the *Russian* re-supply OTL?

sonofpegasus · #**6711** June 19th, 2012, 08:44 PM

With North Africa done and dusted the situation in Russia is changed, The Luftwaffe is not being bled of transport aircraft and at least two Luftflotte of bombers will not be diverted from the Russian front. Also of course no Tigers sent to Tunisia, so the first time the Western Allies will meet them is when they land on mainland Europe. Now that could be a very nasty surprise. How much the extra material will effect the 1942 Russian front capaign only AD knows!

Paulo the Limey · #**6712** June 19th, 2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expat

Sorry, are the German pockets *in Russia* supplied by air by planes now available because there is no African front, or was the *Russian* re-supply OTL?

I'm fairly sure that the pockets were from OTL- the successful supply of these pockets went some way to convince Hitler that the later, larger pocket of 6th Army at Stalingrad. Whoopsie

Astrodragon · #**6713** June 19th, 2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo the Limey

I'm fairly sure that the pockets were from OTL- the successful supply of these pockets went some way to convince Hitler that the later, larger pocket of 6th Army at Stalingrad. Whoopsie

they are indeed OTL, but the Luftwaffe does have a few more transport planes available, so its a little easier.

Obfuscated · #**6714** June 19th, 2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrodragon

they are indeed OTL, but the Luftwaffe does have a few more transport planes available, so its a little easier.

That reminds me, ME-Goliaths exist in this timeline ?

Those planes orignally suffered some horrific losses doing africa supply runs OTL but did quite well by accounts on the Eastern Front - less enemy fighters to utterly murder them.

ME-Goliaths are gliders. Wooden gliders. Gigantic wooden gliders. Functionally closer to a Hercules or Galaxy than the typical one use WW2 glider they suffered from being a) huge wooden boxes, b) as agile as a railcannon c) non-expendable meant being restricted to airfields where the tow planes could operate.

The tow-planes ? You know the Twin Mustang ? Well, the germans had the Twin He-111 and tried for a Triple He-111. Because they could use only two Triple instead of three Twins to tow a Goliath.
(And because the He-111 was relativly shitty so the frames could be spared, but the tow arrangement for six planes was a bit much even gor germans.)

wietze · #**6715** June 19th, 2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obfuscated

That reminds me, ME-Goliaths exist in this timeline ?

ME-Goliaths are gliders. Wooden gliders. Gigantic wooden gliders. Functionally closer to a Hercules or Galaxy than the typical one use WW2 glider they suffered from being a) huge wooden boxes, b) as agile as a railcannon c) non-expendable meant being restricted to airfields where the tow planes could operate.

so they still might come up with them, and also with the version with engines.

glider: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_321
motorised: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323

edit:reading the wiki article on the 323 makes you go

, the 323Z zwilling version carrying a 17.7 (metric) tonne bomb is just mindblowing (thats 39K lb).

Wet Coast · #**6716** June 19th, 2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernKiwi

First of all, signed up just to say that I think this is an excellent alt timeline and I am quite enjoying it.

From reading between the lines of some of SE Morrison's work, I got the impression that King thought that way after a couple of unescorted British convoys got worked over badly during the BoB panic when all the destroyers were held back to protect the UK.

In this timeline with less of an invasion panic and so more escorts being available, it would be entirely possible that this never happened and so King never forms that opinion.

Actually some of the blame for the convoy issues should rightly be assigned to Admiral Adolphus Stevens, the commander of the North Atlantic Costal Frontier (later the Eastern Sea Frontier).

The intial British warnings, based upon intercepts, indicating that UBoats were comming were sent to his command. It was Stevens who then decided that an unescorted convoy was just a big target, in contravention of all prior experience, and chose not to organize convoys. When he did manage to get some escorts to work with he sent them to patrol the shipping lanes instead of assigning them to convoys.

The whole convoy issue was greater than just one man. There were command structure issues, a general antipathy towards the RN at senior levels and a disregard of intelligence officers and "operational research".