Map Thread IX

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by EmmettMcFly55

Rather than making a 'perfect' ethnic map, I tried to make a plausible WWI-era map which comes as close as possible to this ethnic map. The premise is an Austrian collapse sometime prior to World War One. Thanks to excessive negotiation between Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Russia, a war is averted, although as a result of that compromises have to be made and puppet states set up where annexation might have been preferred, all to avoid antagonizing other countries.

Results (and thus sort of the key to the map):
Germany gains Austria, gets Bohemia-Moravia and Slovenia as puppets.
Russia gains the Polish and Ukrainian lands, and gets Slovakia as a puppet.
Romania gains most of Transsylvania, with the Szeklerland and a corridor remaining Hungarian.
Italy gains the obvious areas one can spot on the map: Trento, Triest, (most of) Istria, Fiume, and parts of coastal Dalmatia.
Croatia becomes independent to avoid a too-large Russian proxy Serbia.
Serbia itself gains most of Bosnia.
Montenegro gains a small piece of coast.

Does that sound reasonable? Of course, if there's a war and Russia loses it, then Galicia might also be partitioned among ethnic lines by newly-independent Poland and Ukraine.

Germans might want to retain a port, and as Fiume was a codominion of the Kingdom of Hungary and the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia they might also want a piece of the pie. Giving the Germans that red area in southern Slovenia then a road to the port might also be acceptable. I don't see much of a chance for the Hungarians getting to keep some other Magyar group after how they treated every minority in their half of the empire.Also, here is some fun things for how Montenegro gets northern Albania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...don_%281915%29

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

This requires a war...a war against Hungary.

Bruce

Does this by chance end up with the Romanians occupying the eastern section of the Danube, the eastern section by communist Germans, and a group of Jews and artistic bohemians playing pirates on some islands separating Buda from Pest?

[Sub Lord Hawk]

Originally Posted by xt828

Why does Bosnia go to Serbia-Montenegro? Do you think that the Hungarian territory in Romania is sustainable, given the timeframe?

Austria doesn't want an independent Bosnia?
No it's most likely not but oh well, as I said mine was just for me originally.

[chelm]

Originally Posted by xt828

Why does Bosnia go to Serbia-Montenegro? Do you think that the Hungarian territory in Romania is sustainable, given the timeframe?

Because the majority of the population was Serbian. I've also added the croatian Parts of Bosnia to Croatia.

I don't know, but maybe the Szeklers secede at some point from Hungary and enter a loose federation with Romania?

Originally Posted by Martin23230

Why does Hungary get the Hungarian bits of Slovakia, whilst Austria doesn't get the German bits of Bohemia?

Maybe you have noticed that I've added the german name of the country. Bohemia has two constitutional ethnic groups and two official languages, no need for the Sudeten-Germans to secede.

[Sub Lord Hawk]

Inspired by a recent thread, an independent Republic of Alaska, with purchases of the Yukon and north-west BC.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by chelm

Because the majority of the population was Serbian. I've also added the croatian Parts of Bosnia to Croatia.

Maybe you have noticed that I've added the german name of the country. Bohemia has two constitutional ethnic groups and two official languages, no need for the Sudeten-Germans to secede.

Croatian and Serbian were not considered separate back then.


It would be seceding of the same sort Northern Ireland did within days of Home Rule being established. Besides, wouldn't there be a bit of conflict in how one group calls it after the region and the other by their ethnic group? It would likely end up being called Bohemia by the Anglophonic cartographers for the sole sake that it is familiar to them.

[chelm]

Originally Posted by Clandango

Croatian and Serbian were not considered separate back then.


It would be seceding of the same sort Northern Ireland did within days of Home Rule being established. Besides, wouldn't there be a bit of conflict in how one group calls it after the region and the other by their ethnic group? It would likely end up being called Bohemia by the Anglophonic cartographers for the sole sake that it is familiar to them.

Of course they were considered separate.

The kind of Bohemia I envision in my map requires a kind of German-Czech "Ausgleich" before 1900. The relations between the two ethnic groups wouldn't be that "bad" as they were in 1918/1919 and a german secession would surely be less likely.

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Clandango

Germans might want to retain a port, and as Fiume was a codominion of the Kingdom of Hungary and the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia they might also want a piece of the pie. Giving the Germans that red area in southern Slovenia then a road to the port might also be acceptable. I don't see much of a chance for the Hungarians getting to keep some other Magyar group after how they treated every minority in their half of the empire.Also, here is some fun things for how Montenegro gets northern Albania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...don_%281915%29

I did a map on that a while back.

[Lascupa0788]

My own 2 cents on the Austria-Hungary issue. I only did Hungary, though.

I personally think that this is one of my best maps. What do ya'll think?

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by Lascupa0788

My own 2 cents on the Austria-Hungary issue. I only did Hungary, though.

I personally think that this is one of my best maps. What do ya'll think?

Don't know. Haven't seen any of your other ones. Greater Slovenia is rather entertaining.

[NikoZnate]

Are we carving up Austria-Hungary? That's one of my favourite got-twenty-minutes-to-kill activities!

I'll be the first to admit that I tend to be less than accommodating of the Germans in my divisions...

[Youkai]

I find it odd that Slovenia isn't in Yugoslavia.

[Clandango]

Maybe a topographic map is in order. More might support Italy getting all of OTL south Tyrol if they saw the Alps cutting it off from Austria.

[General Tirpitz]

Originally Posted by Youkai

I find it odd that Slovenia isn't in Yugoslavia.

I don't think Slovenians fit Yugoslavia as nicely as other Southern Slavs (not that they fitted particularly well either).

[NikoZnate]

Originally Posted by Youkai

I find it odd that Slovenia isn't in Yugoslavia.

I like independent Slovenia

That, and I'm trying to limit "Yugoslavia" to Serbo-Croatian speaking groups (it doesn't include Macedonia either, but that's not shown on the map), in order to nudge the country in the direction of a single unified ethnic identity (plus a few non-Slavic minorities, obviously).

[Pischinovski]

I changed some stuff on my Worlda of 1907 for my Araldyana TL, new world is not down yet so only old world for now:


for some more details here

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Clandango

Maybe a topographic map is in order. More might support Italy getting all of OTL south Tyrol if they saw the Alps cutting it off from Austria.

Frankly the same arguement could be made for Fiume, Sondrio, Livigno, Bormio, the Italian enclave in Switzerland, Innsbruck and the rest of the Tirol, the Voraalburg, Valle d'Aosta or Genoa.

The point is, the South Tyrol was very German and had pretty much no historical connection to Italy, and should by all rights have remained with Austria post WWI.

[Magnificate]

Originally Posted by NikoZnate

Are we carving up Austria-Hungary? That's one of my favourite got-twenty-minutes-to-kill activities!

There is this weird 'smoothing' of the Polish-Slovak mountain range borders and for some reason Slovakia gets a chunk of Hungarians.

[Nietzsche]

This makes me wonder. Does anyone have figures on the number of Transylvanian Saxons in around 1890-1900?

[NikoZnate]

Originally Posted by Magnificate

There is this weird 'smoothing' of the Polish-Slovak mountain range borders and for some reason Slovakia gets a chunk of Hungarians.

The former is due to a combination ignorance of the precise topography of the region and a penchant for being generous to the Slovaks. The latter is a combination of the aforementioned pro-Slovak slant and a price Hungary has to pay for getting a corridor (filled with Romanians) to Székelyföld. Also, I didn't use ethnicity alone as the main determining factor of the borders.