Map Thread IX

[Lowtuff]

Earlier today, I decided that I would make a sane and reasonable division of Austria Hungary based upon ethno-linguistic lines. My goal was to make a Hungarian state, Austrian/German state, Czech and Slovak states/Czechoslovak state, Slovenian state and give Romanian areas to Romania, Italian areas to Italy, South Slavic areas to Yugoslavia, Ukrainian areas to Ukraine and Polish areas to Poland. This was to be done with three principles.
1. Each state must be as ethno-linguistically homogeneous as possible.
2. There must be no landlocked enclaves.
3. Any large enclaves landlocked enclaves near the main body but surrounded in another will be given a minimally sized corridor to keep it connected with the mother country.
I then went and drew my borders in blue, thinking that this would have been both a peaceful and practical way to divide things. I now understand that I was wrong.

It is fairly evident why a lot of this map (Transylvania and the Sudentenland) would simply not work as borders. I think I understand why Austria Hungary isn't divided on ethnic lines in any TL now. :P

[Albidoom]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

My new map

Bruce

Originally Posted by B_Munro

And new scenario

Bruce

Once again, a formidable work.

Elsewhere there are shows like Pimp my Ride, but here on ah.com we have Pimp my Map!

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Lowtuff

Earlier today, I decided that I would make a sane and reasonable division of Austria Hungary based upon ethno-linguistic lines. My goal was to make a Hungarian state, Austrian/German state, Czech and Slovak states/Czechoslovak state, Slovenian state and give Romanian areas to Romania, Italian areas to Italy, South Slavic areas to Yugoslavia, Ukrainian areas to Ukraine and Polish areas to Poland. This was to be done with three principles.
1. Each state must be as ethno-linguistically homogeneous as possible.
2. There must be no landlocked enclaves.
3. Any large enclaves landlocked enclaves near the main body but surrounded in another will be given a minimally sized corridor to keep it connected with the mother country.
I then went and drew my borders in blue, thinking that this would have been both a peaceful and practical way to divide things. I now understand that I was wrong.

It is fairly evident why a lot of this map (Transylvania and the Sudentenland) would simply not work as borders. I think I understand why Austria Hungary isn't divided on ethnic lines in any TL now. :P

Good, your intentions were. The outcome, bad it shall be.

Though, really, the biggest problem is all those damn Germans. It's like someone took a shotgun to a map of the balkans, and all the holes were turned into areas for German settlement.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by kasumigenx

The Map is about the alliance of the Wettins and Wittelsbach which pushed the House of Lorraine to Hungary.

So they evicted their lands and moved to Hungary?

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by Lowtuff

Earlier today, I decided that I would make a sane and reasonable division of Austria Hungary based upon ethno-linguistic lines. My goal was to make a Hungarian state, Austrian/German state, Czech and Slovak states/Czechoslovak state, Slovenian state and give Romanian areas to Romania, Italian areas to Italy, South Slavic areas to Yugoslavia, Ukrainian areas to Ukraine and Polish areas to Poland. This was to be done with three principles.
1. Each state must be as ethno-linguistically homogeneous as possible.
2. There must be no landlocked enclaves.
3. Any large enclaves landlocked enclaves near the main body but surrounded in another will be given a minimally sized corridor to keep it connected with the mother country.
I then went and drew my borders in blue, thinking that this would have been both a peaceful and practical way to divide things. I now understand that I was wrong.
It is fairly evident why a lot of this map (Transylvania and the Sudentenland) would simply not work as borders. I think I understand why Austria Hungary isn't divided on ethnic lines in any TL now. :P

Looks like they simply need to bring revivials of local culture in different areas like they did with East Galicia, and have handfuls of city states spread about the map. Does this map actually show German majority areas or just areas with large German presence?

[Sub Lord Hawk]

I did one like that a few months back, sorry for the poor borders, was meant to just be one for me.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by Sub Lord Hawk

I did one like that a few months back, sorry for the poor borders, was meant to just be one for me.

One of the main issues here is how the Slovens and Croats got demoted from their previous statuses as Kingdoms. Could you try another one of these also showing the Montenegrin gains?

[chelm]

Originally Posted by Clandango

One of the main issues here is how the Slovens and Croats got demoted from their previous statuses as Kingdoms. Could you try another one of these also showing the Montenegrin gains?

Slovenia did never have the status of a kingdom.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by chelm

Slovenia did never have the status of a kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom...2%80%931849%29

[chelm]

Originally Posted by Clandango

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom...2%80%931849%29

That was not an explicitly "slovenian" entity.

btw. here is my proposal for an alternative dissolution of AH:

[kasumigenx]

William Adelin survives and inherits Flanders.

[xt828]

Originally Posted by chelm

That was not an explicitly "slovenian" entity.

btw. here is my proposal for an alternative dissolution of AH:

Why does Bosnia go to Serbia-Montenegro? Do you think that the Hungarian territory in Romania is sustainable, given the timeframe?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

And today, boys and girls, we learn to not label a map when your screen image is too large to see the whole map at once.

Bruce

I find having a second paint window open so I can go look at my labels is useful.

[xt828]

Originally Posted by kasumigenx

William Adelin survives and inherits Flanders.

I notice one or two other changes - what is the timeframe here? How does Hungary come to possess Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia?

[xt828]

Originally Posted by Lowtuff

Earlier today, I decided that I would make a sane and reasonable division of Austria Hungary based upon ethno-linguistic lines. My goal was to make a Hungarian state, Austrian/German state, Czech and Slovak states/Czechoslovak state, Slovenian state and give Romanian areas to Romania, Italian areas to Italy, South Slavic areas to Yugoslavia, Ukrainian areas to Ukraine and Polish areas to Poland. This was to be done with three principles.
1. Each state must be as ethno-linguistically homogeneous as possible.
2. There must be no landlocked enclaves.
3. Any large enclaves landlocked enclaves near the main body but surrounded in another will be given a minimally sized corridor to keep it connected with the mother country.
I then went and drew my borders in blue, thinking that this would have been both a peaceful and practical way to divide things. I now understand that I was wrong.
It is fairly evident why a lot of this map (Transylvania and the Sudentenland) would simply not work as borders. I think I understand why Austria Hungary isn't divided on ethnic lines in any TL now. :P

You know, if you eliminated condition 3, and stopped treating Germans as Hungarians, the situation would be much less of a problem.

[black angel]

Originally Posted by Lowtuff

Earlier today, I decided that I would make a sane and reasonable division of Austria Hungary based upon ethno-linguistic lines. My goal was to make a Hungarian state, Austrian/German state, Czech and Slovak states/Czechoslovak state, Slovenian state and give Romanian areas to Romania, Italian areas to Italy, South Slavic areas to Yugoslavia, Ukrainian areas to Ukraine and Polish areas to Poland. This was to be done with three principles.
1. Each state must be as ethno-linguistically homogeneous as possible.
2. There must be no landlocked enclaves.
3. Any large enclaves landlocked enclaves near the main body but surrounded in another will be given a minimally sized corridor to keep it connected with the mother country.
I then went and drew my borders in blue, thinking that this would have been both a peaceful and practical way to divide things. I now understand that I was wrong.

It is fairly evident why a lot of this map (Transylvania and the Sudentenland) would simply not work as borders. I think I understand why Austria Hungary isn't divided on ethnic lines in any TL now. :P

a some what more detailed map, it was bugging me to see Serbs and Croats all together

[Martin23230]

Originally Posted by chelm

That was not an explicitly "slovenian" entity.

btw. here is my proposal for an alternative dissolution of AH:

Why does Hungary get the Hungarian bits of Slovakia, whilst Austria doesn't get the German bits of Bohemia?

[kasumigenx]

Originally Posted by xt828

I notice one or two other changes - what is the timeframe here? How does Hungary come to possess Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia?

This is because Serbia is inherited by Hungary.

This is my opinion in how Austria-Hungary should be partitioned.

[EmmettMcFly55]

Rather than making a 'perfect' ethnic map, I tried to make a plausible WWI-era map which comes as close as possible to this ethnic map. The premise is an Austrian collapse sometime prior to World War One. Thanks to excessive negotiation between Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Russia, a war is averted, although as a result of that compromises have to be made and puppet states set up where annexation might have been preferred, all to avoid antagonizing other countries.

Results (and thus sort of the key to the map):
Germany gains Austria, gets Bohemia-Moravia and Slovenia as puppets.
Russia gains the Polish and Ukrainian lands, and gets Slovakia as a puppet.
Romania gains most of Transsylvania, with the Szeklerland and a corridor remaining Hungarian.
Italy gains the obvious areas one can spot on the map: Trento, Triest, (most of) Istria, Fiume, and parts of coastal Dalmatia.
Croatia becomes independent to avoid a too-large Russian proxy Serbia.
Serbia itself gains most of Bosnia.
Montenegro gains a small piece of coast.

Does that sound reasonable? Of course, if there's a war and Russia loses it, then Galicia might also be partitioned among ethnic lines by newly-independent Poland and Ukraine.

[B_Munro]

This requires a war...a war against Hungary.

Bruce