AHC: Hadrada controls England

Sort of an AHC and a WI, make Hadrada have both de facto control and de jure control of the Kingdom of England by 1070. Rules: POD has to be after 1064. No ASB. William must be stripped of all future intentions to get the throne of England, maybe he dies, maybe he is defeated in battle, whatever you chose, but he must not try to get the throne after 1070.

Now the WI part: According to whatever your solution to the challenge is, what would be the effects on England? What would it be like by 1500? Et cetera et cetera...

The Challenge part is relatively trivial, isn't it? Just screw with the winds in 1066 so that William gets to England before Hardrada does.

It´s Hardrada

And I agree with the poster above, change the timing. If Hardrada arrives after William things could be interesting. Whether Hardrada would have to face William or Godwynson either army would be exhausted.

The interesting part though is that Hardrada is from a relatively thinly populated, not that developed part of Europe. Norway and Denmark of the viking era were not really compatible although they often ended under the same ruler.

Also Hardrada was rather unpopular and if we take the word of Snorri Sturluson he could have faced a rebellion at home if a sufficiently strong leader would show up.

My prediction is that Norway conquering England would fail. Hardrada would be facing a rebellion at home and who knows whether his archrival Sweyn Estridsson (or Ulfsson) would consider invading England and imitate his grandfather Sweyn I... Of course Sweyn attempted two invasions OTL

Could be rather interesting.

But you didn´t ask me for that now Just change the timing and give him some luck. Hardrada is a rather harsh warrior but not devoid of diplomatic skills.

And he's probably only a prologue anyway.

He's fifty in 1066, pretty old for a Viking chief. So he probably only has a short reign. After that, it all depends on his son Olaf Kyrre, who gets to be "Canute" to his father's "Sweyn Forkbeard". Norway goes to the elder son, another Harald iirc.

OTL, the two sons ruled Norway jointly, and iirc did a reasonable job. So there's no reason to assume that Olaf can't make a success of being King of England.

Olaf Kyrre is definitely amongst the kings I´d have wanted in the viking/early middle ages. Kind of a quiet type, likes building churches and not going to war.

He´s still going to have to deal with a danish invasion. Sweyn who was fighting Hardrada regularily over Denmark after installing him in Norway made two attempts OTL, Norway´s hold on England is weaker than the Normans would be I assume. Sweyn is probably even more pissed, both Norway and England are a part of his uncle Knut´s empire after all.

I could also well imagine the Normans trying again. Olaf Kyrre would need to be a very good king to avoid being deposed, not saying that´s impossible.

Fabilius said:

Olaf Kyrre is definitely amongst the kings I´d have wanted in the viking/early middle ages. Kind of a quiet type, likes building churches and not going to war.

He´s still going to have to deal with a danish invasion. Sweyn who was fighting Hardrada regularily over Denmark after installing him in Norway made two attempts OTL, Norway´s hold on England is weaker than the Normans would be I assume. Sweyn is probably even more pissed, both Norway and England are a part of his uncle Knut´s empire after all.

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Could be, but if the two brothers cooperate anything like OTL, he has to fight England and Norway at the same time, which he might not be keen on.

I could also well imagine the Normans trying again. Olaf Kyrre would need to be a very good king to avoid being deposed, not saying that´s impossible.

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Iirc things turned more difficult after 1066. William's ally Baldwin of Flanders died in 1067, and he had increasing issues with the King of France.

Also, if William is killed in an unsuccessful invasion, his son Robert (who seems to have been no great shakes as a ruler) will have to spend ages re-establishing ducal authority, so Olaf gets a breather.

Archbishop Stigand died in 1072. If the King (Harald or Olaf) is smart, he will choose a successor with impeccable credentials - Ealdred of York, maybe, or Wulfstan of Worcester - to keep the Pope onside.

If the Norwegian Kings can hang on into the 1090s, the pressure drops even further when so many Norman (and other) barons go off to join the First Crusade. This makes it much harder to raise the kind of force which Willliam needed to conquer England.