What if Maria Theresa were born male?

SavoyTruffle

SavoyTruffle

Assuming a POD where Charles VI and Elisabeth Christine move slightly differently in the marriage bed :)D), and thus the child who in OTL was Maria Theresa was born a male, what would the effects be?

I know this renders the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713 redundant, but what other effects could there be?
 

King of Rome

Firstly, I enjoy the wording of your question.

Secondly, I am not sure if it would butterfly away the War of the Austrian Succession. Maybe it would be named something else, but if i remember correctly, Fredrick had a pretty weak claim to start it in OTL, I am not convinced a male on the Austrian throne could have prevented the land grab.
 

Sarantapechaina

King of Rome said:
Secondly, I am not sure if it would butterfly away the War of the Austrian Succession. Maybe it would be named something else, but if i remember correctly, Fredrick had a pretty weak claim to start it in OTL, I am not convinced a male on the Austrian throne could have prevented the land grab.
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That doesn't necessarily matter, since pretty much all Austrian diplomacy in the 1730s evaporates.
 
SavoyTruffle

SavoyTruffle

Pretty much, since Charles VI's biggest project is rendered superfluous with a male heir.

Sooner or later, however, you have a young, intelligent monarch willing to prove himself and using the army his father began developing... so a European war isn't unlikely. Moreover, this is the era of the stately quadrille, where most of the European powers changed allies as they did dance partners.
 

King of Rome

Well then, I suppose it would depend largely on how Prussian-Austrian relations develop, and what kind of monarch Man-Maria (...) grows up to be. There's no guarantee he will be 'intelligent.' (unless you are refering to someone else.)
 
SavoyTruffle

SavoyTruffle

King of Rome said:
Well then, I suppose it would depend largely on how Prussian-Austrian relations develop, and what kind of monarch Man-Maria (...) grows up to be. There's no guarantee he will be 'intelligent.'
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Yeah, there's a good chance he could turn up like his father - average and not too intelligent. Still, a Habsburg's a Habsburg, and these guys make running countries a family business after all.
 

Sarantapechaina

scholar said:
Which could change.
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That's what I said. Almost all Austrian diplomacy in the thirties was centered around the succession; if Karl VI has a male heir, that diplomacy will have to change. All that lovely political capital could be spent elsewhere.

It'll certainly alter the negotiations for a Prussian alliance in that decade, although perhaps less in Austria's favor.
 

Elfwine

Might be an entirely different war, with Frederick the Rash being remembered for sacrificing the patiently built up gains of his father and grandfather, when anyone bothers to pay attention to the history of Brandenburg.

Mathew (Man-Maria is awkward) is going to be in a stronger position if the Elector gets delusions that "King in Prussia" makes his underwhelming state more than just another pesky electorate.
 
SavoyTruffle

SavoyTruffle

Elfwine said:
Might be an entirely different war, with Frederick the Rash being remembered for sacrificing the patiently built up gains of his father and grandfather, when anyone bothers to pay attention to the history of Brandenburg.

Mathew (Man-Maria is awkward) is going to be in a stronger position if the Elector gets delusions that "King in Prussia" makes his underwhelming state more than just another pesky electorate.
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Just for clarification, Charles, Leopold, and even Frederick are more likely Habsburg names than Mathew. ;)

Elfwine said:
But does it have to be a Hapsburg screw?

:(
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Just you wait. I'm cooking something up. :D
 

Elfwine

SavoyTruffle said:
Just for clarification, Charles, Leopold, and even Frederick are more likely Habsburg names than Mathew. ;)
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Did any Habsburg use Mathew, while we're being picky? :p

Just you wait. I'm cooking something up. :D
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Good.

No one (well, compared to Prussia and England) loves Austria. At least France gets "Hey, what's with the Francophobia?" now and then, but Austria gets mentioned most often as "How can we add this to Lesser Germany?".
 
SavoyTruffle

SavoyTruffle

Elfwine said:
Did any Habsburg use Mathew, while we're being picky? :p



Good.

No one (well, compared to Prussia and England) loves Austria.
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There's Matthias (II), Holy Roman Emperor and King of Hungary. Close enough, for me.

Here's something I wrote that a select few have seen already:

14 May 1717[1]
Hofburg Palace, Vienna, Archduchy of Austria, Holy Roman Empire

Emperor Charles VI paced furiously in his room. His wife Elisabeth had gone into labor, and was giving birth. He had reason to fret about this birth, for even though Elisabeth had borne him a son, Leopold, the boy died early.

Austria, under the imperial House of Habsburg, had managed to retain its prestigious position in Europe. Although it had lost the position of pre-eminent power to France after the Thirty Years’ War, as well as the Spanish throne when the Spanish line went extinct with Charles II, in the meantime the Austrian branch had recovered most of Hungary after defeating the Turk. Austria also received the southern Netherlands after the War of the Spanish Succession, which whilst putting Louis XIV’s grandson Philip of Anjou on the Spanish throne as Philip V, granted a lot of concessions to France’s rivals, particularly Britain.

For that matter, however, Charles VI felt the Habsburg line was in great jeopardy. His elder brother and predecessor as Emperor, Joseph I, died without any sons. Charles VI had signed an agreement proposed by their father Leopold I that should either of them have no sons, Joseph’s daughters would be favored in the succession. However, Charles ignored this, leading to the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713, whereupon the realms of the House of Habsburg would be declared indivisible and allow succession through females. For this reason, Charles was very anxious.

Just then, the doctor entered. “Mein Kaiser”, he began, “a great congratulations to you. It is a healthy baby boy[2].”

Charles smiled. The succession of the House of Habsburg was secured.

[1]The date is one day later than OTL, because of minor butterflies resulting from the POD, which was nine months prior…
[2]And this is the result. No Maria Theresa TTL.
 

Elfwine

Yay!

:D

Austriawank not necessary, just as long as Austria does...well enough to look better than "Why isn't this part of Germany?"

:D
 

Elfwine

SavoyTruffle said:
Or rather "what's this wiener schnitzel-shaped oddity that speaks German and yet is not German"? :D
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Something like that.

By the way, while on the subject of that peculiar bunch of territory, I have a question on the term archduchy. (PMing you to avoid derailing this)
 
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