Spanish Japan

Hermanubis

Spanish Japan


(I swear I remember something like this, but can’t find it, so…)

Japan, perhaps by some strange fluke, is conquered by Spain. What happens? Does it become another Philippines? Does it become more Europeanized?
 

Othniel

Portugal make contact as OTL, but when the Spainsh get control of Portugal they decide to presue Portugal's contrats w ith more fervor. Japan attempts to close them out, Spain attacks and turns them into a vassal more like Brunie, or India then the Phillopeans.
 

DaSla

1. we could see a less populated Japan due to disease or less colonization from mainland Asia to the islands, or 2. a possible Japan-Spanish conflict in Japans early entry into its opening to the rest of the world, ending in its defeat and occupation by Spain. if #1 does happen, then we could see a more European cultured Japan, and perhaps if the Spanish-American war still does happen, it is possible it could later become a American Territory that could end with its independence or possibly Statehood.
 

Hermanubis

Wendell said:
What might happen to such a Japan religiously? Does the date of this Spanish action matter?
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Probably the Spaniards will spend years converting the populace to Catholicism (its what they do)
 

Hermanubis

Anyway, I imagine any Spanish or European conquest of Japan would entail a large amount of help from and for one of the Christian Daimyo (Invasion toehold, perhaps?) and that might affect the Christianization process.
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
Othniel said:
Portugal make contact as OTL, but when the Spainsh get control of Portugal they decide to presue Portugal's contrats w ith more fervor. Japan attempts to close them out, Spain attacks and turns them into a vassal more like Brunie, or India then the Phillopeans.
Click to expand...

Eek, where did your spelling go ?

Grey Wolf
 

MerryPrankster

Invading and conquering Japan would be a mighty big task for the Spanish, especially if they used the Phillippines as a base. There were very few actual Spaniards in the Phillippines; most of the populace was Chinese or native.
 

Hermanubis

MerryPrankster said:
Invading and conquering Japan would be a mighty big task for the Spanish, especially if they used the Phillippines as a base. There were very few actual Spaniards in the Phillippines; most of the populace was Chinese or native.
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They wouldn’t have to do it all at once (The Sengoku and all), It would probably go slowly, supporting this or that Daimyo against the others.
 

Hermanubis

President Ledyard said:
I could see Japan being conquered by Spanish-supported Christian Japanese maybe. I can't really see it being ruled from Madrid though.
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You don’t think we could do something with this?
 

Faeelin

Banned
Othniel said:
Portugal make contact as OTL, but when the Spainsh get control of Portugal they decide to presue Portugal's contrats w ith more fervor. Japan attempts to close them out, Spain attacks and turns them into a vassal more like Brunie, or India then the Phillopeans.
Click to expand...

The Japanese then annihilate the invading army, and crucify them. I mean, they are using tens of thousands of soldiers armed with muskets.

The invasion by the Spanish turns the japanese into Dutch allies, and they are well aware that they must pay more attention to events outside their homeland.

By 1800, the Rising Sun rules the Pacific Rim.
 

MerryPrankster

Faeelin said:
The Japanese then annihilate the invading army, and crucify them. I mean, they are using tens of thousands of soldiers armed with muskets.

The invasion by the Spanish turns the japanese into Dutch allies, and they are well aware that they must pay more attention to events outside their homeland.

By 1800, the Rising Sun rules the Pacific Rim.
Click to expand...

And they might be staunch Calvinists too. :)

Seriously, the Japanese were pretty hard-core. As you said, the Spanish would have been slaughtered.
 

Othniel

Faeelin said:
The Japanese then annihilate the invading army, and crucify them. I mean, they are using tens of thousands of soldiers armed with muskets.

The invasion by the Spanish turns the japanese into Dutch allies, and they are well aware that they must pay more attention to events outside their homeland.

By 1800, the Rising Sun rules the Pacific Rim.
Click to expand...
I was being opptimistic on the Spainsh side, and that was the simplist of scenarios..., at least in oppertunity.
 

Max Sinister

Banned
That's what I'd believe too: First, the Spaniards attack. The can christianize some Japanese, but not all of them. They make some gains, but the Japanese build more musketes, unite against them and kick them out at the end. But the Spanish still are at the Philippines, because of that and their bad experience they decide not to close the borders and outlaw firearms, and at the end, Japan is way more mighty...
 

Wendell

President Ledyard said:
I could see Japan being conquered by Spanish-supported Christian Japanese maybe. I can't really see it being ruled from Madrid though.
Click to expand...
That does seem far more plausible.
 

NapoleonXIV

Banned
The problem is that the Dutch did sort of try something just like that, supporting the Tokugawa against the Portugeuse at a critical moment, and got no more than very limited contact at one port for their trouble

Still, this was after the seclusion was already becoming established policy, which by no means happened as soon as the Tokugawa took over. If the Spanish had acted very decisively very early, and were willing to settle for something like the British Raj in Japan they might just get away with it.

OTOH, you can't forget just how far away Japan was from Europe and you have to remember that Japan had a larger population than Spain and was actuallly making better guns than the Europeans at that time. Maybe if Mt Fuji erupts and there are earthquakes and tidal waves.....
 
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