Macarthur in Europe

[Odin]

Ok I just thought of this yesterday.

What if Macarthur never went to the pacific, and was only involved in the European theater? Would he be supreme commander? Would he be as popular If he couldn't say I have returned?/ I shall return? Would he clash with Eisenhower? Eisenhower was his subordinate in the Philipines OTL before the war.

Couldn't find any similar thread. To me it's open to many possibilites. Perhaps an Patton/Macarthur rivalry too? who knows.

[DMA]

Well considering his defeat in the Philippines, I'd doubt he'll become Supreme Commander of Europe. Other than suffering a massive defeat, he just hasn't got the political skills unlike Ike. Also he wouldn't have had any battle experience against the Germans, unlike Patton et al, so I'd expect him to get his ass kicked the first time he faced the Germans.

So would he clash with Ike? Yup. It'd be a big one too. As a result, expect Macarthur to be on the next boat to China or Alaska or somewhere like that.

I'd also expect Patton & Macarthur to have a slugging match in some pub somewhere with fists flying in all directions. In the aftermath of such a pub brawl, Patton is put on ice somewhere in England, whilst Macarthur finds himself in Alaska somewhere.

[Count Dearborn]

Macarthur would have probably found him self commanding a desk in Washington, D.C., with the rank of Major because he spoke his opinion of D-Day in a pub. (In OTL, one of the other generals did get sent home for trying to sound important in a pub, and almost giving away the plan.)

[Ward]

Originally Posted by DMA

Well considering his defeat in the Philippines, I'd doubt he'll become Supreme Commander of Europe. Other than suffering a massive defeat, he just hasn't got the political skills unlike Ike. Also he wouldn't have had any battle experience against the Germans, unlike Patton et al, so I'd expect him to get his ass kicked the first time he faced the Germans.

So would he clash with Ike? Yup. It'd be a big one too. As a result, expect Macarthur to be on the next boat to China or Alaska or somewhere like that.

I'd also expect Patton & Macarthur to have a slugging match in some pub somewhere with fists flying in all directions. In the aftermath of such a pub brawl, Patton is put on ice somewhere in England, whilst Macarthur finds himself in Alaska somewhere.

Some thing to rember Guys is Macarthur had date of rank on IKE and also Marshal . Plus Macarthur and Pattion had know each other during the 1st WW . They meet on a battlefield in WWI where both were walking up right comanding there troops . What a lot of people don't rember is Pattion permant rank was higher then Ikes until the day he died .

[Ward]

Originally Posted by Count Deerborn

Macarthur would have probably found him self commanding a desk in Washington, D.C., with the rank of Major because he spoke his opinion of D-Day in a pub. (In OTL, one of the other generals did get sent home for trying to sound important in a pub, and almost giving away the plan.)

You would not of been able to get MacArthur out of the way that easy .
They would of had to Court Marshaled him and who would of sat on it .
Rember at this time his date of rank was second to Marshal . If he did not rank Marshal . Plus he knew when to keep his mouth shout on military operations . That is why they left him in the Pasific for the war .

[panzerjay]

Macarthur poor political manners would cause him much pain. i see him back in washington after italian mainland is invaded

[DMA]

Originally Posted by Ward

Some thing to rember Guys is Macarthur had date of rank on IKE and also Marshal . Plus Macarthur and Pattion had know each other during the 1st WW . They meet on a battlefield in WWI where both were walking up right comanding there troops . What a lot of people don't rember is Pattion permant rank was higher then Ikes until the day he died .

Nonetheless I don't think Patton would think much of his old "friend" for leaving his troops behind in The Philippines, whilst he escaped to Australia. Plus both were ones to state their wont thanks to them both being prima donnas. Now Patton wouldn't have hit Monty, as they wasn't just their style, but Patton & Macarthur are a completely different couple. I can easily see them two having a slug fest somewhere

Anyway, I thought Patton was a Lt. General (3 Stars), whilst they promoted Ike to a new rank of General of the Army (5 stars) so he could be Supreme Allied commander in Europe.

[Ward]

Originally Posted by DMA

Nonetheless I don't think Patton would think much of his old "friend" for leaving his troops behind in The Philippines, whilst he escaped to Australia. Plus both were ones to state their wont thanks to them both being prima donnas. Now Patton wouldn't have hit Monty, as they wasn't just their style, but Patton & Macarthur are a completely different couple. I can easily see them two having a slug fest somewhere

Anyway, I thought Patton was a Lt. General (3 Stars), whilst they promoted Ike to a new rank of General of the Army (5 stars) so he could be Supreme Allied commander in Europe.

Right but Ikes Perment rank was only Major General untill 1945 . when his Perment rank was made Lt. General and in 1947 his rank was made General of the Army. Also General of the Army make less then a Major General .

[DMA]

Originally Posted by Ward

Right but Ikes Perment rank was only Major General untill 1945 . when his Perment rank was made Lt. General and in 1947 his rank was made General of the Army. Also General of the Army make less then a Major General .

You Americans have funny ranks

[CalBear]

Then Europe would have a second ego as big as Monty's, not entirely sure that the land mass is sufficient for that.

[shane]

Patton was a God of war the rest of them were mere mortals trying to act like Gods.

I would like to have seen a scenario play out where Patton was the sepreme commander and Curtis Laymay was second in command in Europe. There would not have been much left of Germany after that union of Generals.

[Hyperion]

Originally Posted by DMA

Nonetheless I don't think Patton would think much of his old "friend" for leaving his troops behind in The Philippines, whilst he escaped to Australia. Plus both were ones to state their wont thanks to them both being prima donnas. Now Patton wouldn't have hit Monty, as they wasn't just their style, but Patton & Macarthur are a completely different couple. I can easily see them two having a slug fest somewhere

Anyway, I thought Patton was a Lt. General (3 Stars), whilst they promoted Ike to a new rank of General of the Army (5 stars) so he could be Supreme Allied commander in Europe.

Only one problem. TTL assumes that MacArthur is not in the Philippines during the beginning of the war.

Would MacArthur run the invasion of North Africa better than Ike?

On another note, If Ike was only a Major General until after the war, why did he have four stars, aka a full general by 1944?

[Ward]

Originally Posted by Hyperion

Only one problem. TTL assumes that MacArthur is not in the Philippines during the beginning of the war.

Would MacArthur run the invasion of North Africa better than Ike?

On another note, If Ike was only a Major General until after the war, why did he have four stars, aka a full general by 1944?

Because the US Army has a system of promiting people to a rank higher than there perment grade . Expale my Father wore Full Bird Col . but in 1946 he was sent back in rank to Master Sgt . thay call it rifting . they did that to a lot of officers in the war .

[Ramp-Rat]

To digress from the main point for just one min, the British system is just as screwy. An officer in the Army can hold 3 different ranks at on time.
1 Regimental, his rank in his own regiment/ corps.
2 Army, his rank in the army list.
3 Temporary/Brevit, a comand rank to give power to comand.

[luakel]

Well, MacArthur did actually meet Patton in WWI, so there's a chance they might get along well. Torch would likely go the same, and I don't know how he'd do things differently in the Mediterranean. But assuming that he eventually makes it to SHAEF, I could see him bulldozing ahead with the Normandy invasion earlier, despite bad weather at the time. That would have serious consequences...

Also, any thoughts on what things a different commander would do in the Pacific?

Originally Posted by shane

I would like to have seen a scenario play out where Patton was the sepreme commander and Curtis Laymay was second in command in Europe. There would not have been much left of Germany after that union of Generals.

.........

Shane, if you're going to have wet dreams about the destruction of a country, you should at the very least get LeMay's name right...

[MerryPrankster]

FDR ordered MacArthur to leave Corregidor; he didn't really want to.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Ramp-Rat

To digress from the main point for just one min, the British system is just as screwy. An officer in the Army can hold 3 different ranks at on time.
1 Regimental, his rank in his own regiment/ corps.
2 Army, his rank in the army list.
3 Temporary/Brevit, a comand rank to give power to comand.

The first one is the confusion to me not the latter. I can see how if you appoint someone temporaily to command in a heirachical system he has to be above the most superior of his subordinates so you can boost him temporarily up the scale for the sake of this.

But why have a different rank in a regiment than in the army ???

Grey Wolf

[DMA]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

FDR ordered MacArthur to leave Corregidor; he didn't really want to.

I'm sure many people, including Truman, would argue that this was FDR's greatest mistake

[DMA]

Originally Posted by Ramp-Rat

To digress from the main point for just one min, the British system is just as screwy. An officer in the Army can hold 3 different ranks at on time.
1 Regimental, his rank in his own regiment/ corps.
2 Army, his rank in the army list.
3 Temporary/Brevit, a comand rank to give power to comand.

Yeah, but the Regimental rank is honourary. Prince Charlie is a Regimental Colonel, but that doesn't mean a thing to the army chain of command &/or especially in combat.

The latter two are reasonably logical &, far more importantly, spelt out. You are usually whatever pips there are on your shoulder. And if your are a Brevet rank it's stated that you are.

[Melvin Loh]

Well, with Mac as SACEUR, you probably couldn't get OVERLORD to successfully take place, since, as mentioned before, Mac just didn't have the political and accomodationist skills which Ike had to hold a coalition tog, which was exactly what was needed to successfully execute the invasion of Europe.