That Wacky Redhead

[Falkenburg]

Just to say I haven't got a bald clue what you guys are talking about (beyond the more general references) but I'm hanging in there and enjoying eavesdropping on the conversation.

Update when you can, Brainbin.
I'm sure it'll be worth waiting for and we'll find something to occupy ourselves in the meantime.

Falkenburg

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Thanks to everyone for your kind words about my most recent update. I'll talk more about the finer details of Those Were the Days, and how it differs from All in the Family in terms of tone, plot, character development, and topical relevance, in the future.

On this one I will claim a little creative licence - for a few reasons. It's now over four years past the POD - and we're looking at the industry that's been affected the earliest by the changes it wrought. The butterflies are out in full force, and as I mentioned earlier, casting is perhaps the most ephemeral aspect of film and television production. Everything has to line up just right. And it's not as if I picked Dreyfuss and Marshall's names out of a hat - both were finalists for their respective roles IOTL.

Fair enough, fair enough....

It looks like the next update won't be ready until this weekend, for a couple of reasons: for one, the dreaded RL is threatening to encroach on me and I'm just barely holding it back; and two, I have another commitment, upon which I'm toiling away. I'm not at liberty to disclose the nature of this commitment, but it is on a deadline that's rapidly approaching. Once I clear that threshold, things should start moving a little faster, and I don't think I'll be going below a minimum of one update per week. But I'm just keeping you all abreast of the situation. Please feel free to continue your ongoing discussion, and I'll talk to you all again soon.

Take your time - I'm feeling a little overdone myself between the Turtledoves, RL work stuff, and RL home stuff (nothing bad in any, just been crazy busy).

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by Glen

As I don't fully know Canadian cliches, I might have missed such....

Perhaps. Or I was sensitive to it.

Originally Posted by Glen

Vigilantes with odd powers aren't exactly anti-cliche in the USA, so maybe that is part of the difference in response - a vampire cop show was a refreshing twist for me.

True. And, in that light, "Angel" was pretty conventional. I just felt it was overall handled better. The "community of demons" Whedon created made a lot of sense, & the "vamp underground" in "FK" never felt real to me.

Originally Posted by Glen

In general, one might think that vampires could accrue some decent loot over time...but this need not be the rule - there will be plenty of vampires who aren't particularly good business people, and remember too that the longer they live, the more chance they will live though some sort of disaster that could wipe out their holdings (natural or manmade).

Granted. It's just, I've never seen anything but "life on the edge" types. (Could be this is impacted by show budget: making him look like Bill Gates costs more than making him look like a homeless guy.)

Originally Posted by Glen

A slight point against honest business as a vampire is their need to keep night hours, which are not traditional business hours - this might be mitigated by the mid to late 20th century, but before then they would be at a distinct disadvantage in terms of finance. Then again, if they have hypnotic abilities, they might be 'persuading' people to do business at odd hours.

I had overlooked that. However, even disallowing hypnosis, it's possible to find humans who'll work for you & do the legwork in daylight. Nor is it impossible to do deals with people at night.... Explain it away by claiming to be eccentric, feeling daylight is unlucky, whatever. Consider: a vamp owns a house in London in, say, 1800. By 1900, how much more is the land worth? Even if he does nothing else? (Even if it's after a Great Fire.)

Originally Posted by Glen

We shall agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Glen

He was green, but he wasn't Lorne Greene.

And nobody did the Kermit joke.

Originally Posted by Glen

I am gratified, citizen!

You're entirely welcome.

Originally Posted by Glen

I'm not certain that is so - it is more lamenting the lives they expected to have, but aren't.

There might be some of that, but, "my LaSalle" & "guys like us"? What blue collar guy could afford a LaSalle? Who in the '50s drove a LaSalle? (In today's terms, it's a bit like driving a Benz 500 or an Aston, or something.) Given Arch was in his '50s in 1973, he'd have been a kid when Hoover was President & at best might've driven a used LaSalle just before, or after, the War. Chances of him owning even a new Buick in the '50s strike me as slim. (It would've been in the same price range...unless I'm flipping the Olds/Buick again.)

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Every OTL version of the theme song kept the "LaSalle" stanza. Choosing to end the whole song with it, as in most versions, is a big mistake ("I don't know just what went wrong" is much stronger, as is "Where did all that beauty go", the closing line from the 1968 pilot).

It's the contradiction that's getting me. As lyric qua lyric, I like it. It beats "Oldsmobile", which fits the scansion & is more logical.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Assuming that the lyrics were meant for the WWI generation, it does explain what is otherwise the oddest line in the song: the longing for Hoover. Surely Calvin Coolidge would fit the meter just fine? But no, they're not talking about President Hoover; they're talking about "The Great Humanitarian" Hoover.

That's how it looks to me, which makes it odd Archie & Edith are singing it.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

So I think you're right on the money.

I take you to mean you don't get the contradiction, either?

Originally Posted by Brainbin

And it's not as if I picked Dreyfuss and Marshall's names out of a hat - both were finalists for their respective roles IOTL.

I like that aspect a lot: subtle but important changes, rather than convenient morphic twins.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

delicate balance of character and ideology...an intriguing sociological experiment.

Which makes how else it might have been done even more interesting.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Not a fan of "Schlemiel! Schlimazel! Hasenpfeffer Incorporated!", I take it?

Not a fan of the show at all.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Quite remarkable how big a star he was in the 1970s, isn't it? Now, are you formally suggesting Crystal for the role in Graffiti? Because I might just consider it...

It was the first name that came to mind, & he does remind me of Dreyfus some. I liked Crystal enormously in "Soap". I've a hunch somebody bigger might get it: Dustin Hoffman? (Thinking of "Midnight Cowboy".) Your call, as always.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

And as for Duddy Kravitz, I'm sure Richler won't care who plays him, as long as it's a Jewish actor.

That could make for very interesting casting. Let me make a formal request for a Canadian in this one, if at all possible.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

What's interesting is that, IOTL, Dreyfuss took the role in Jaws as a direct result of his dissatisfaction with his portrayal of Duddy Kravitz.

Huh. So he probably doesn't do "Jaws" in any case. Which also makes for interesting choices...

Originally Posted by Brainbin

you're definitely on the right track

TY.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Struthers' weakness as an actress (which is actually very common; it's the reason that a lot of actors are so uneven) is that she's only as good as the material she's given.

IMO, it's the mark of the "average" actor. The really good ones can bring even mediocre material to life. Point granted, however.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

she was a baby boomer and a female in the era of women's liberation, and none of them had any idea how to write for that.

I got some sense she was a product of conflicted upbringing, too: the late '60s woman in a household with no clue what women's lib was, & it left her a bit at sea which way to be.

Originally Posted by Glen

Hmm, she'd be an interesting choice, but really, we're talking about her for a TTL analogue of Laverne and Shirley, and who knows if that will happen or not ITTL.

True.

Originally Posted by Glen

Something like that, yes - also, the son-in-law doesn't have to be in every episode of the series, so there can be times where he is filming a movie and only makes occasional appearances.

Also true, tho my sense is, for star's wages, they'd want him in every episode.

Originally Posted by Glen

Could be any of the above, but I didn't have the same issues you seemed to have with these characters, especially Yar - they were constantly referencing her backstory and even had an episode dedicated to it, essentially.

Mentioning it, but never seeming to use it much. Compare Yar to Ronon, or to Dax: the backstory was central to them. Yar, not so much. And then she got written out, & so did Ford, & replaced by somebody with more room to grow: Worf & Ronon. Yes, some of it was bad writing. Some may've been casting actors who wanted out, IDK. Badly done in any case.

Originally Posted by Glen

So basically he was unrealistic.

Shanks, for wanting more? I think so. He knew, or should have known, what he was getting when he signed up. And they should have left him dead, or ascended, if he really was that unhappy.

Originally Posted by Glen

actually, I'm certain they all are

TYVM. I trust you'll approve. I could have kept looking, but it wasn't meant to be a list of every hot actress I've seen. Some were obscure, not big stars, but...

Originally Posted by Glen

LOVED Emma Samms! Yes indeed, I agree!!

Emma was the sole reason I started watching "GH". Actually, it was that accent alone. And I will never forget Sheena Easton's first time on Carson. She went 10 minutes before I actually heard a word she said: all I could think of was that delicious, brain-numbing accent. (Never noticed in her singing voice, & never thought that was exceptional.) I'd have happily listened to her read the phone book, & I'd have done whatever she wanted.





On an unrelated note, I have a broad question, if anybody wants to take it on. My sense is, producers have a big impact on how a show looks & feels, even with the same cast & writers: "Dragnet" by Jack Webb isn't going to be "Dragnet" by Desilu. If that's true, would "TWTD" be as successful? More? Less? And is there any way to tell?

[Glen]

Originally Posted by phx1138

Emma was the sole reason I started watching "GH". Actually, it was that accent alone.

I also really enjoyed Finola Hughes.

And I will never forget Sheena Easton's first time on Carson. She went 10 minutes before I actually heard a word she said: all I could think of was that delicious, brain-numbing accent. (Never noticed in her singing voice, & never thought that was exceptional.) I'd have happily listened to her read the phone book, & I'd have done whatever she wanted.

Totally agree about the accent, though I did in fact also like her singing.

On an unrelated note, I have a broad question, if anybody wants to take it on. My sense is, producers have a big impact on how a show looks & feels, even with the same cast & writers: "Dragnet" by Jack Webb isn't going to be "Dragnet" by Desilu. If that's true, would "TWTD" be as successful? More? Less? And is there any way to tell?[/QUOTE]

[Electric Monk]

I'm only on page 6 (of 12, my settings) but this is a lovely and amazing timeline and I had to show my appreciation. In every possible way you have made a fantastic cultural timeline. I regret that the board favours political/military timelines but in some ways you've got beyond that by being simply amazing. (The title made me skip reading your ATL as well, foolishly.)

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by Glen

I also really enjoyed Finola Hughes.

Liked her looks, but not as much as Emma's by half.

Originally Posted by Glen

Totally agree about the accent, though I did in fact also like her singing.

Not saying I disliked her singing voice, just nothing like as stunning as her speaking.

Have you noticed, they've both gone out of their way to sound more American?

And we agree again. *checks sky for dark clouds & signs of demons*

[Brainbin]

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Just to say I haven't got a bald clue what you guys are talking about (beyond the more general references) but I'm hanging in there and enjoying eavesdropping on the conversation.

Thank you, Falkenburg. It means a lot to know that you're still reading along

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

I'm sure it'll be worth waiting for and we'll find something to occupy ourselves in the meantime.

Some of us more literally than others, it would seem

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

I'm only on page 6 (of 12, my settings) but this is a lovely and amazing timeline and I had to show my appreciation. In every possible way you have made a fantastic cultural timeline.

Thank you very much for your lovely compliments, Electric Monk! A pleasure to have you aboard.

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

I regret that the board favours political/military timelines but in some ways you've got beyond that by being simply amazing.

Oh, go on But in all seriousness, yes; you've discovered the reason that I made this timeline. All due respect to some of those lovely and fascinating "serious" timelines, but they're not my style, and I thought that might also be true of some of this forum's readers

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

(The title made me skip reading your ATL as well, foolishly.)

That's unfortunate But at least you eventually gave it a try anyway. I've never been very good with titles, unfortunately; but I wonder if you'll agree that this one beats my working title of I Love Desilu. If I may ask, what did you expect when you first saw the title and decided to click the link? It's one of the very first questions I asked, and so far nobody has answered it. But I'm honestly curious.

(The rest of you are welcome to answer, too. It's on-topic, and less creepy and lecherous than the current topic of discussion )

[joea64]

Well, speaking for myself, it was the title that intrigued me. It's so different from most of the other titles I see here that it caught my notice, and being a devotee of classic Hollywood as I am - and one of these days I wish somebody would write a TL as good as yours based on one of the intriguing what-if's of cinema history - I wanted to see what it was about. I got hooked when you turned to Trek, because I could tell right off that you had obviously read Solow and Justman's Inside Star Trek from cover to cover (as have I). I just feel sorry that I came in too late to be able to comment on the Trek sections while they were fresh.

Oh, and by the way, Brainbin? When you get to the mid- and late-'70's, creepy and lecherous is going to become the order of the day. :P "Jiggle" and all that, don't you know.

[Falkenburg]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

It's one of the very first questions I asked, and so far nobody has answered it. But I'm honestly curious.

Speaking for myself, I read the Title and thought "What's that about?"

I was intrigued by the little snippet that popped up when my cursor hovered over the Title.
However, it didn't reveal anything more than the Title so in I popped for a wee look.

The First Post had me hooked.
A genuinely original take on an ATL. An engaging and lucid writing style that promised good things to come.

The attention to detail and the entirely plausible ripples that spread from the seemingly 'small' change are very satisfying to a Reader like myself.

Naming no names, there are (IMO) a plethora of TLs that revolve around a particularly 'large' divergence wherein, aside from the central idea, OTL pretty much carries on regardless.

Those that actually proceed realistically and pay due consideration to the subtleties are few and far between and almost invariably well worth following.

I'm what could be described as a 'Casual Fan' of US TV.
Largely experienced second-hand, through re-runs and cultural osmosis.
Like most of the world I don't hear the singer but I catch the echoes, so to speak.

I've also been reminded of a couple of Shows I hadn't thought about for years.
Talk of UFO led me back to Invaders. I revisited Sapphire & Steel.
I dug out the Manic Street Preachers cover of Suicide Is Painless, then listened through their back catalogue.
Cultural ephemera is my Crack and YouTube is my Dealer.

I've been inspired to root around a bit so as to get a (slightly) better grasp of the context and have been tickled by the way the aforementioned ripples have spread.
My interest is engaged and I look forward to seeing what new thoughts might be stirred when I see the Thread has been Updated.

The surrounding conversation adds to the attraction (Disturbing as the thought of Glens' youthful passions might be ).

And then, of course, we have the That Wacky Redhead Drinking Game (although, frankly, some of you Muppets are not pulling your weight in that regard )

In short then, I like your TL and the thoughts it provokes.

Falkenburg

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

The surrounding conversation adds to the attraction (Disturbing as the thought of Glens' youthful passions might be ).

Why are my youthful passions disturbing?

The comments I've been places <sheesh> - just this week, a large audience was informed by an august speaker that, and I quote - "Glen without his voice is like Don Juan without his gonads!"

Anyway, back to That Wacky Redhead....

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

That's unfortunate But at least you eventually gave it a try anyway. I've never been very good with titles, unfortunately; but I wonder if you'll agree that this one beats my working title of I Love Desilu. If I may ask, what did you expect when you first saw the title and decided to click the link? It's one of the very first questions I asked, and so far nobody has answered it. But I'm honestly curious.

I had no idea who the Wacky Redhead was and I read the first post (which is, as you've said) very different and didn't like it and I've never liked Lucy and… wandered away. Saw it keep popping up and scrolled down to "This Season is the First Season of the Rest of Your Career" and I was hooked.

I honestly have no idea what you could call it though .

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

And then, of course, we have the That Wacky Redhead Drinking Game (although, frankly, some of you Muppets are not pulling your weight in that regard

Speak for yourself . 6 pages and I was trashed.

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

I wonder if you'll agree that this one beats my working title of I Love Desilu.

For me, that would've worked better, but that's somebody knowing what Desilu is.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

what did you expect when you first saw the title and decided to click the link?

Let me, then. TBH, I don't recall exactly what made me look at it. I've a vague recollection of a mouseover showing up Desilu, tho, & that would have done it.

As for reading the first post? It didn't take more than the first couple of lines for me to know it was going to be interesting. That it would be so good, too, was a very pleasant bonus.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

and less creepy and lecherous than the current topic of discussion )

[Kalvan]

If Bruce Lee plays Kwai Chaing Caine, which sort of Kung Fu do we get? A hard but pulpy action style show like a Walker: Texas Ranger 125 years early, or an allegorical, phillosophical show like OTL but with better choreography since the lead actor won't need to be trained quite from scratch?

Of course, there is the problem that Mr. Lee's formal education in the wide wacky world that is Traditional Kung Fu seemed to consist of his family style of Tai Chi, some Hon Gar he picked up in Hong Kong, and of course Yp Man's special style of Wing Chung, and that the rest of the techniques he integrated into the style that he would come to call Jeet Kun Do seemed to have been adapted on a case-by-case basis. Which is to say that having him play a Shaolin monk trained at the Southern Temple and using the Seven Animal Styles without at least some supplemental training would would probably look to a serious student of them almost like the fight scene in The Princess Bride between Wesley and Ignio Montoya does to any serious student of Rennaisance swordplay. (Yes, I know that Wing Chung has Shaolin ties, but they were to the 2nd Central Temple via the Convent, and the nuns developed it after its destruction by the Manchus, which was still over 200 years before the setting of the show. It's also true that Hon Gar allegedly has ties, via the Hakka, to Tibetan Buddhist liniages, but that has as much to do with the Shaolin as either does to the Iko Ikki.)

[Brainbin]

Thank you all for giving your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts on this timeline. And now for my thoughts on your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts

Originally Posted by joea64

Well, speaking for myself, it was the title that intrigued me.

Glad to hear that. I've actually become quite fond of it.

Originally Posted by joea64

It's so different from most of the other titles I see here that it caught my notice, and being a devotee of classic Hollywood as I am - and one of these days I wish somebody would write a TL as good as yours based on one of the intriguing what-if's of cinema history - I wanted to see what it was about.

I agree wholeheartedly with you there - I would love to see a Golden Age POD.

Originally Posted by joea64

I got hooked when you turned to Trek, because I could tell right off that you had obviously read Solow and Justman's Inside Star Trek from cover to cover (as have I).

It's a truly fascinating read, to anyone who might be interested.

Originally Posted by joea64

I just feel sorry that I came in too late to be able to comment on the Trek sections while they were fresh.

I will be talking more about Star Trek in future updates, so don't worry about that

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

The First Post had me hooked.

Glad to hear you liked it. As noted, it is very different from all of the other updates. But obviously, you didn't find the shift jarring.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

A genuinely original take on an ATL. An engaging and lucid writing style that promised good things to come.

Thank you. If I can be allowed the indulgence of being proud of anything I've written, it would have to be my POD

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Those that actually proceed realistically and pay due consideration to the subtleties are few and far between and almost invariably well worth following.

Well, thank you very much High praise, indeed!

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Largely experienced second-hand, through re-runs and cultural osmosis.
Like most of the world I don't hear the singer but I catch the echoes, so to speak.

The situation of myself and my countrymen is unique. Marshall McLuhan describes it better than I ever could, but then that's no surprise. If this timeline could be said to adhere to anyone's philosophical teachings, it would definitely be his.

(Cue the Annie Hall rejoinders. "You know nothing of my work!" )

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Cultural ephemera is my Crack and YouTube is my Dealer.

Quoted (and sigged!) for truth.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

My interest is engaged and I look forward to seeing what new thoughts might be stirred when I see the Thread has been Updated.

I certainly couldn't ask for anything more than that.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

The surrounding conversation adds to the attraction (Disturbing as the thought of Glens' youthful passions might be ).

At least he keeps the trolls away

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

And then, of course, we have the That Wacky Redhead Drinking Game (although, frankly, some of you Muppets are not pulling your weight in that regard )

If I ever find myself in your bar, I hope I can get a free drink, what with all the shilling you're doing in my TL

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

In short then, I like your TL and the thoughts it provokes.

Thank you for all that praise, and for being a reader and a commenter ever since page one!

Originally Posted by Glen

Why are my youthful passions disturbing?

If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you

Originally Posted by Glen

Anyway, back to That Wacky Redhead....

You really should make that your mantra, Glen

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

I had no idea who the Wacky Redhead was and I read the first post (which is, as you've said) very different and didn't like it and I've never liked Lucy and… wandered away. Saw it keep popping up and scrolled down to "This Season is the First Season of the Rest of Your Career" and I was hooked.

I went with that introductory update for two reasons: I decided to follow the patented creative writing advice to start with an "attention-grabber", and I felt the urge to parody Baba Wawa and news magazine programs in general. Also, the intro technically establishes the entire rest of the timeline to date as a flashback - another hallowed literary device. I don't think I could sustain that writing style all the way through, however, so I'm glad you like the style I'm currently using

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Speak for yourself . 6 pages and I was trashed.

Are you serious? You actually participated in the That Wacky Redhead Drinking Game? Well then, I have no choice but to award you the No-Prize for Witless Inebriation! It can be redeemed at Falkenburg's bar for the alcoholic beverage of your choice

Originally Posted by phx1138

For me, that would've worked better, but that's somebody knowing what Desilu is.

Funny, when I divulged this earlier, you seemed quite shocked at the working title. Or was that just for comic effect?

Originally Posted by phx1138

Let me, then. TBH, I don't recall exactly what made me look at it. I've a vague recollection of a mouseover showing up Desilu, tho, & that would have done it.

My mouseover only got as far as "Enter Baba Wawa...", and I'm not sure if that has helped or hindered my cause

Originally Posted by phx1138

As for reading the first post? It didn't take more than the first couple of lines for me to know it was going to be interesting. That it would be so good, too, was a very pleasant bonus.

Thank you very much. I'm glad that you too liked my debut post. I worked hard to make it feel like an actual Baba Wawa puff piece (which, of course, may help to explain why Electric Monk was so turned off by it).

Originally Posted by Kalvan

If Bruce Lee plays Kwai Chaing Caine, which sort of Kung Fu do we get? A hard but pulpy action style show like a Walker: Texas Ranger 125 years early, or an allegorical, phillosophical show like OTL but with better choreography since the lead actor won't need to be trained quite from scratch?

Welcome aboard, Kalvan! And thank you for the excellent question. Desilu has experience producing both kinds of programs: "Mannix" is definitely the former, and Star Trek (along with "Night Gallery") is the latter, with "Mission: Impossible" having a foot in both camps, so to speak. Even beyond Desilu, it's a tough call. "Walker" was first and foremost a vehicle for Norris who, like Lee, was a skilled martial artist; but the Hollywood of the 1970s was able to produce a show like Kung Fu in any event IOTL. However, Carradine was a better actor than Lee, which might have made the difference. There are a lot of complex variables to take into account here.

As for your more technical questions, I'm afraid that my knowledge of martial arts in general, let alone Kung Fu in particular, is virtually nil. Let's just say I know about as much with regards to the subject as Captain Kirk does If you'd like to put your question to me in layman's terms, I will do my best to answer it. And thank you for your interest in my timeline.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts on this timeline! As promised, the next update should be ready sometime this weekend.

[Falkenburg]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Quoted (and sigged!) for truth.

Aw shucks.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

If I ever find myself in your bar, I hope I can get a free drink, what with all the shilling you're doing in my TL

Consider it done.
I have a reasonable selection of single malts but name your poison and I'll see what I can do.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Are you serious? You actually participated in the That Wacky Redhead Drinking Game? Well then, I have no choice but to award you the No-Prize for Witless Inebriation! It can be redeemed at Falkenburg's bar for the alcoholic beverage of your choice

It's the very least I can do, considering the damage I've already helped inflict.

Seeing as you must by now be a hardened drinker I shall have to see if I've got any of the special concoction I made for our Staff Party left.

One Hand Grenade with a Dead Salmon pin coming up.

Falkenburg

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

I have a reasonable selection of single malts but name your poison and I'll see what I can do.

Seeing as you must by now be a hardened drinker I shall have to see if I've got any of the special concoction I made for our Staff Party left.

One Hand Grenade with a Dead Salmon pin coming up.

Bourbon, but I like single malts just fine.

Once you've been a server or bartender I think hardened drinker is mandatory.

Oooh. Yes.

[Kalvan]

Snip.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Welcome aboard, Kalvan! And thank you for the excellent question. Desilu has experience producing both kinds of programs: "Mannix" is definitely the former, and Star Trek (along with "Night Gallery") is the latter, with "Mission: Impossible" having a foot in both camps, so to speak. Even beyond Desilu, it's a tough call. "Walker" was first and foremost a vehicle for Norris who, like Lee, was a skilled martial artist; but the Hollywood of the 1970s was able to produce a show like Kung Fu in any event IOTL. However, Carradine was a better actor than Lee, which might have made the difference. There are a lot of complex variables to take into account here.

True. But it's a delicate balance. If it amounts to just an immigrant railroad worker protecting his fellows and their wives and children from bandits, bigots, and bad bosses, and occasionally meets a few tribesmen in feather headresses to swap stories, then the character becomes (to grossly oversimplify things) just another Shatterhand with slanted eyes and a willingness to use his feet too. But if you go too far the other way, you run the risk of turning the series into what its sequel series Kung Fu: The Legend Continues became by its second season, with the Scroll of This, The Book of That, The Cup of Yonder, and evil spirits and cults everywhere, and since this one is still set in the Old West, the occasional pan over to the side where Coyote and the Monkey King are looking on at the events and/or engaged in a drinking game.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

If you'd like to put your question to me in layman's terms, I will do my best to answer it. And thank you for your interest in my timeline.

Well, assuming the show still makes Caine a Buddhist monk trained at the Southern Shaolin temple in the aftermath of the First Opium war, it won't matter much at the time in America outside of Asian communities if Mr. Lee employed his signature style rather than a more classical Shaolin one. However, to those Asian communities, particularly in Chinatowns and other places with a lot of people with Southern Chinese ancestry (Especially from Guangzhou and Hunan provices) it will be jarringly obvious. (Hence my reference to The Princess Bride). Oh, and You are welcome.

What I'm really looking forward too is the future career of Terry Nation. Will Blake's Seven still happen in a world without Watergate, or will it have to wait until Margret Thatcher? Of course, Maggie will place a stamp of disaproval on the BBC, so maybe Nation, on a holiday in the States, meets this "kid" named Rockne O'Bannon, and while talking with him in a bar, Jim Henson overhears them while looking for followup to The Muppet Show, and then one thing leads to another...

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Funny, when I divulged this earlier, you seemed quite shocked at the working title. Or was that just for comic effect?

No, because text doesn't convey tone well... I was getting at how unlikely I thought it would be most people here would recognize the Desilu name. You would. I would. I doubt we're anything like even a pluarlity.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

I agree wholeheartedly with you there - I would love to see a Golden Age POD.

+1. It could have extremely interesting results. (When you get done here, Brainbin...?)

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Thank you very much. I'm glad that you too liked my debut post. I worked hard to make it feel like an actual Baba Wawa puff piece (which, of course, may help to explain why Electric Monk was so turned off by it).

Yeah, getting the setup right can be a bear. You have to get people interested & keep them, past what may be an odd incident to hook them, to get to the real story... Seeing how many movies fail to do that, I'm not surprised one or two people passed on this. Seeing I've passed on some TV shows, thinking they were stupid, only to come back later, find something I really liked, & get hooked... (For which I'll name "NCIS" & "House".)

Originally Posted by Brainbin

"Walker" was first and foremost a vehicle for Norris who, like Lee, was a skilled martial artist; but the Hollywood of the 1970s was able to produce a show like Kung Fu in any event IOTL. However, Carradine was a better actor than Lee, which might have made the difference.

I got the impression "Kung Fu" was going to be a vehicle for Bruce, so... Nor does low-grade acting necessarily kill a series, or "Walker" wouldn't have lasted so long. Would a network carry it if it brought in a different demo? Would Asians be a target audience for some advertisers, & pay enough to keep it on?

If it was, indeed, a philosophical show, I've a sense it wouldn't have done as well as if it'd been just action. Action sells better, & it's easier to sell for export.

Originally Posted by Kalvan

But it's a delicate balance. If it amounts to just an immigrant railroad worker protecting his fellows and their wives and children from bandits, bigots, and bad bosses, and occasionally meets a few tribesmen in feather headresses to swap stories, then the character becomes (to grossly oversimplify things) just another Shatterhand with slanted eyes and a willingness to use his feet too. But if you go too far the other way, you run the risk of turning the series into what its sequel series Kung Fu: The Legend Continues became by its second season, with the Scroll of This, The Book of That, The Cup of Yonder, and evil spirits and cults everywhere, and since this one is still set in the Old West, the occasional pan over to the side where Coyote and the Monkey King are looking on at the events and/or engaged in a drinking game.

It's a balancing act, & it does risk getting kooky or stupid. It can also be really, really good. Take a look at this someday. It's the tale of a guy wandering the West killing mythical monsters, & it's occasionally deeply weird, but mostly, not, & really good. (To be fair, he only does in the setup story; start at #8, not...so for most of the run, not.) In any case, the mysticism never got in the way, & was occasionally pretty funny.

Or Morrison's run on DP, which is deeply, deeply weird & mostly incomprehensible (I never met anybody who understood it), but it's just so damn good, I never cared (nor ever met anybody who did, either).

Originally Posted by Kalvan

Well, assuming the show still makes Caine a Buddhist monk trained at the Southern Shaolin temple in the aftermath of the First Opium war

Allowing Bruce is the star, I doubt that would happen. He'd know better. Would he have enough clout with the studio to avoid it...? I guess that depends on where it's made. (I'd say That Whacky Redhead[tm] would allow creator integrity to rule.)

Originally Posted by Brainbin

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts on my thoughts on your thoughts on this timeline! As promised, the next update should be ready sometime this weekend.

OK, I'm calling the Thought Police. Or the Grammar Police.

[phx1138]

For anybody thinking about what "The Muppet Show" might look like, consider this: a vampire gets his ass kicked by a puppet.

[stevep]

Brainbin

Well, catching up after a while away. Quite a lot of discussion and plenty of names of attractive ladies that stir up a few memories.

On what prompted me I was very lucky. Because of other activities I nowadays normally only keep track of my subscribed threads and occasionally look through new threads. The title puzzled me and I didn't recognise Desilubut had a look at the 1st post. Didn't initially realise what the series that would be greatly affected was. [In my defence while a childhood favourite I wouldn't have been interested in who the US producers were]. However interested enough in something different from the usual military/political POD to keep reading. Probably it was already a few pages long by then when I came across it and once I realised the series in question was ST I subscribed. The rest is history.

Steve