That Wacky Redhead

[Glen]

Another thought here might be seeing the wacky redhead develop The Warrior with Bruce Lee as the star as TTL's Kung Fu. It was apparently pitched to both Warner Brothers and Paramount IOTL so it is plausible that it would be pitched to Desilu ITTL. I think that Ball is the exec most likely to gamble on a series with a non-American lead if for no other reason than her personal experience with Arnez in I Love Lucy. Given the multicultural cast of Star Trek and the import of Doctor Who coupled with the historical I Love Lucy. Desilu could gain a reputation for this kind of multicultural programming.

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Glen

Another thought here might be seeing the wacky redhead develop The Warrior with Bruce Lee as the star as TTL's Kung Fu. It was apparently pitched to both Warner Brothers and Paramount IOTL so it is plausible that it would be pitched to Desilu ITTL. I think that Ball is the exec most likely to gamble on a series with a non-American lead if for no other reason than her personal experience with Arnez in I Love Lucy. Given the multicultural cast of Star Trek and the import of Doctor Who coupled with the historical I Love Lucy. Desilu could gain a reputation for this kind of multicultural programming.

Do you mean the show the Bruce Lee developed to be his own star vehicles, only to be dumped by the network execs who believed an Asian man could be the star of a successful TV show, so they got Carradine instead?

[Glen]

Another thought here might be seeing the wacky redhead develop The Warrior with Bruce Lee as the star as TTL's Kung Fu. It was apparently pitched to both Warner Brothers and Paramount IOTL so it is plausible that it would be pitched to Desilu ITTL. I think that Ball is the exec most likely to gamble on a series with a non-American lead if for no other reason than her personal experience with Arnez in I Love Lucy. Given the multicultural cast of Star Trek and the import of Doctor Who coupled with the historical I Love Lucy. Desilu could gain a reputation for this kind of multicultural programming.

[Brainbin]

All right, with luck, this will be the last volley of responses before the next update!

Originally Posted by phx1138

No doubt. Except "Trap" would be 9 years later OTL... As said, a very similar show, even down to the same cast, with a slightly different theme & new name isn't unlikely.

It is amusing that "Trapper John, M.D." was by far the most successful spinoff of "M*A*S*H" IOTL. And your argument has merit

Originally Posted by The Professor

I quite enjoyed it at the start and then the BBC decided that because it was huge it had to massively outlast good scripts

Ah yes. 44 whole episodes. All 44 of them! Can you imagine?! (That's only two seasons in the U.S.) It amuses me, because many of the great American sitcoms of OTL, that were said to have Never Jumped the Shark, had very long runs. Look at "Mary Tyler Moore", often described as the "perfect" sitcom. Seven seasons, 168 episodes. "Barney Miller", another famously consistent sitcom. Eight seasons, and also 168 episodes. "The Golden Girls"? Seven seasons, 180 episodes! And, of course, "I Love Lucy", the mother of all sitcoms: Six seasons, 193 episodes. And that one only had five writers. Surely some Britcom producers in the days of yore could have assembled a competent writing team of half a dozen people and churned out 20 or more classic episodes per season? (Putting monetary considerations aside, of course.) Granted, "My Family" attempted the American model, but let's make them the exception that proves the rule

Originally Posted by The Professor

For the record I think I'm the youngest reader being born well past the POD in end of '77.

I'm afraid not, Professor. I know for a fact that at least two people to have commented are younger than that, and I have reason to believe that at least three more are as well. (Not including myself. Yes, I'm still younger than all of you.)

Originally Posted by Glen

I think I'm making a lot of premature suppositions, on purpose - I want to give you enough information about Doctor Who in the early 1970s to give you some good grist for the mill, before you get too tied into a direction potentially. The rest of them I'm doing just for the shear fun of it! In the end, your timeline so do with this as you please.

Thank you. But I will continue to expect your scrutiny; I did ask for it, after all!

Originally Posted by Glen

But you've bought yourself plenty of time now that we've had the crossover. I will look forward to it regardless of when it materializes.

Once I've churned this next update out, the following two (to finish the 1970-71 cycle) should come more quickly.

Originally Posted by The Sandman

Just finished reading through this, and wanted to give it a thumbs up.

Thank you, Sandman, and welcome aboard!

As to your suggestions: Well, as I said before, I intend to keep this timeline focused on the Anglosphere. Also, it should be noted that, IOTL, Japanese properties becoming successful in the United States were anomalous prior to the 1980s, with the dominance of the Japan Takes Over The World mindset. And even then, video games penetrated pop culture first, with anime not making a significant impact until the 1990s - but only those meant (or bowdlerized) for children, because of the Animation Age Ghetto. Even today, anime intended for mature audiences can't really be called "mainstream" in the West. As for anime in this era? Well, this video is what people of the early 1970s would imagine when asked to think of Japanese cartoons.

Originally Posted by Glen

Another thought here might be seeing the wacky redhead develop The Warrior with Bruce Lee as the star as TTL's Kung Fu. It was apparently pitched to both Warner Brothers and Paramount IOTL so it is plausible that it would be pitched to Desilu ITTL. I think that Ball is the exec most likely to gamble on a series with a non-American lead if for no other reason than her personal experience with Arnez in I Love Lucy. Given the multicultural cast of Star Trek and the import of Doctor Who coupled with the historical I Love Lucy. Desilu could gain a reputation for this kind of multicultural programming.

I was wondering when someone would equate "better race relations" with "Bruce Lee in Kung-Fu". Your reasoning is sound, though one might suggest that, given slightly more open-minded racial attitudes ITTL, Paramount or Warners might accept Lee as the star of his own weekly series, without him having to go to Desilu. (I say this because, given everyone's suggestions, Desilu may well end up producing half the shows on the air in the 1970s). Obviously, Lee having a steady job stateside would butterfly away the circumstances of his death (and, for that matter, David Carradine's death, not to mention the rest of his career).

Originally Posted by vultan

Do you mean the show the Bruce Lee developed to be his own star vehicles, only to be dumped by the network execs who believed an Asian man could be the star of a successful TV show, so they got Carradine instead?

Not one of Hollywood's more enlightened moments, although at least it's not quite as embarrassing as Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Can you imagine that he turned down what IOTL became All in the Family... because he found that offensive?!

The next update should be along in the next couple of days, if all goes well. So until then!

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

All right, with luck, this will be the last volley of responses before the next update!

It is amusing that "Trapper John, M.D." was by far the most successful spinoff of "M*A*S*H" IOTL. And your argument has merit

Trapper John, M.D., really wasn't a MASH spinoff - it was a completely separate medical drama that someone slapped a Trapper John name on and hallucinated a MASH connection IOTL. I think it would be hilarious to see essentially the same show with a different name and no attempt at connecting, as that is what it really should be.

Thank you. But I will continue to expect your scrutiny; I did ask for it, after all!

As you like, then. You were warned....

As to your suggestions: Well, as I said before, I intend to keep this timeline focused on the Anglosphere. Also, it should be noted that, IOTL, Japanese properties becoming successful in the United States were anomalous prior to the 1980s, with the dominance of the Japan Takes Over The World mindset. And even then, video games penetrated pop culture first, with anime not making a significant impact until the 1990s - but only those meant (or bowdlerized) for children, because of the Animation Age Ghetto. Even today, anime intended for mature audiences can't really be called "mainstream" in the West. As for anime in this era? Well, this video is what people of the early 1970s would imagine when asked to think of Japanese cartoons.

I remember Speed Racer - as a child, I wasn't even aware that it was made in Japan. The one that I did have a vague idea was an import, and loved (I don't mean like, here, but loved!) was Star Blazers (yes, I know that the original name of the Japanese series now). That show rocked in the '70s, despite usually being shown in UHF Hell.

I was wondering when someone would equate "better race relations" with "Bruce Lee in Kung-Fu".

Oddly enough, I wasn't - I was equating 'enlightened entrpreneur Lucy' with Bruce Lee in Kung-Fu. But the better race relations don't hurt.

Your reasoning is sound, though one might suggest that, given slightly more open-minded racial attitudes ITTL, Paramount or Warners might accept Lee as the star of his own weekly series, without him having to go to Desilu.

They might, but given the history ITTL, I think the pitch goes to Warner Brothers and Desilu (instead of Paramount). I think you have the same people ITTL still working at Warner Brothers, and thus I think Desilu picks it up.

(I say this because, given everyone's suggestions, Desilu may well end up producing half the shows on the air in the 1970s).

I understand. I wouldn't expect most of the shows to go to Desilu (though that does beg the question of just how many shows at one time Desilu will carry). However, in this particular case I think Desilu makes sound sense, so I would favor it over some of the other suggestions already proffered for Desilu.

Obviously, Lee having a steady job stateside would butterfly away the circumstances of his death

A point, though it depends on how successful the show is - if it only goes for three seasons (I suspect that Desilu will fight hard to keep their productions in production for at least that long for syndication purposes), still might see the rest of his career and life converging. If it goes more, then yeah, I think his death in that manner is butterflied.

(and, for that matter, David Carradine's death,

That's so far in the future, that I would expect it to change in some way regardless.

not to mention the rest of his career).

Unless...Desilu (or whoever) teams up the OTL makers of Kung Fu with Bruce Lee and they have some amalgamation of ideas that results in Bruce Lee lookning for his half-brother (who is 'half'-American) in the West, who he finds several seasons in and who is played by David Carradine - you could then get Carradine's career to something closer (not the same, but closer) to OTL's....

Not one of Hollywood's more enlightened moments, although at least it's not quite as embarrassing as Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Can you imagine that he turned down what IOTL became All in the Family... because he found that offensive?!

Interesting....

The next update should be along in the next couple of days, if all goes well. So until then!

So I shall expect it in two days, no more.

[neamathla]

Originally Posted by Glen

Trapper John, M.D., really wasn't a MASH spinoff - it was a completely separate medical drama that someone slapped a Trapper John name on and hallucinated a MASH connection IOTL. I think it would be hilarious to see essentially the same show with a different name and no attempt at connecting, as that is what it really should be.

According to the US court system, Trapper John was a spinoff of the movie not the tv series. I only remember the show mentioning Hawkeye and Korea in the pilot, so your concept would work.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by neamathla

According to the US court system, Trapper John was a spinoff of the movie not the tv series. I only remember the show mentioning Hawkeye and Korea in the pilot, so your concept would work.

I wasn't talking about the law, I was talking about the truth.

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

given everyone's suggestions, Desilu may well end up producing half the shows on the air in the 1970s

I'd say, rather, we (at least I) forsee Desilu producing the best shows of the '70s. Does that mean only 4 at a time? IDK. How many was Mark VII (Jack Webb) making ("Ironside" & "Emergency" come to mind)? Or QM ("Streets of San Francisco", "FBI", "Barnaby Jones")?

Is it a given Desilu gets no bigger, on the strength of greater marketing & ratings success? That would surprise me. Does that mean it (necessarily) gets as big as Lorimar? IDK, but it's worth considering.

Also, if Desilu does better, does that drive other companies out of business? If it does, does that, therefore, offer opportunities for Desilu to pick up stage space & talent on the "cheap"?

Originally Posted by Glen

They might, but given the history ITTL, I think the pitch goes to Warner Brothers and Desilu (instead of Paramount). I think you have the same people ITTL still working at Warner Brothers, and thus I think Desilu picks it up.

I'd tend to agree, if anybody'd buy it with Bruce in the lead, it'd be Lucy. I'd be very interested how different a show it would be.

Originally Posted by Glen

still might see the rest of his career and life converging. If it goes more, then yeah, I think his death in that manner is butterflied.

Even if not, more exposure to an American audience is likely to make his later films more successful. It's also likely IMO, after even a couple of years in series TV, he's a better actor TTL than OTL. Enough to make him a B action star, in the fashion of van Damme? Just one smart casting choice & decent script, & Bruce makes TTL's answer to "Under Siege". (The idea being, Bruce, like Seagal, lets the bad guys do the heavy lifting where acting is concerned. Say, replacing Joe Don Baker in "Charley Varrick"? Or Brolin in "The Car"? {Truth be told, I didn't like "Charley Varrick", & did like "The Car" as an idea.})

Originally Posted by Glen

Unless...Desilu (or whoever) teams up the OTL makers of Kung Fu with Bruce Lee and they have some amalgamation of ideas that results in Bruce Lee lookning for his half-brother (who is 'half'-American) in the West, who he finds several seasons in and who is played by David Carradine - you could then get Carradine's career to something closer (not the same, but closer) to OTL's....

Not unreasonable, with the Opium Wars & such. A trifle early for the half-brother to be American, tho, isn't it? Unless he's the son of a sailor? (Bit cliche, perhaps.)

[Glen]

Don't recall if I expressed it before, but I suspect that the Republican candidate for president in 1972 would be Richard Nixon again. As mentioned in some other threads, he had strong aspirations, and with the election in 1968 being so close, he's going to want a last shot at it.

I believe he would lose in the political climate as painted here thus far.

Now then, as I have said earlier, I think that in 1976 Reagan would run, and against a non-incumbant Democrat, I think he'd have a good chance of taking the White House, especially given that there must be some hellacious Democrat fatigue at that point with the presidency being held by Democrats since Eisenhower.

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Glen

Don't recall if I expressed it before, but I suspect that the Republican candidate for president in 1972 would be Richard Nixon again. As mentioned in some other threads, he had strong aspirations, and with the election in 1968 being so close, he's going to want a last shot at it.

I believe he would lose in the political climate as painted here thus far.

In the post on the 1968 election it strongly implied that Nixon was done with electoral politics.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by vultan

In the post on the 1968 election it strongly implied that Nixon was done with electoral politics.

You mean Dick 'you won't have me to kick around anymore' Nixon? Hard to believe coming in that close, again, and he wouldn't try for a third roll of the dice. Now then, wanting and getting are two different things and thus he might not win - but I think he'd at least try. Again, it's Brainbin's call.

[vultan]

Well, here's how Brainbin worded it, and it seems pretty explicit to me that Nixon won't be returning in 1972...

Originally Posted by Brainbin

A third high-profile defeat, following his loss to John F. Kennedy in 1960 and his California gubernatorial loss to Pat Brown in 1962 was the final curtain for Richard Nixon's political career. He became to the Republicans what Adlai Stevenson had been to Democrats a generation earlier: a respected elder statesman, revered within his party, who nonetheless failed to gain traction with the people. Never terribly gracious in defeat, Nixon largely retreated from public life, doing his best to avoid the scrutiny of his bete noire, the news media.

Of course, it is theoretically possible that it's written from the viewpoint of the time, which could be "disproven" later on, but I don't believe that a candidate who was the party's nominee twice before who lost, no matter how narrow the margins, is gonna be given another go at it. In this case, third time is not the charm.

[joea64]

I did a search and nobody at all seems to have brought up Gerry Anderson's "UFO", except in passing. OTL, the series ran on ITV in the UK in 1970-71 (the same year as the 5th and last season of Trek ITTL) and was picked up by CBS, IIRC, for the 1972-1973 season. (I remember watching it in Florida that year; BTW, I was born in 1964, so my first exposure to Trek OTL was in syndication.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_(TV_series)

With the much greater popularity of SF TTL, I can't help but think that if "UFO" is produced and broadcast in the UK, it's going to be picked up by one of the other networks as a rival to "Doctor Who". The rather grimdark nature of "UFO", though, might be a handicap, given that the overall zeitgeist of TTL is distinctly more optimistic than OTL.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by vultan

Well, here's how Brainbin worded it, and it seems pretty explicit to me that Nixon won't be returning in 1972...



Of course, it is theoretically possible that it's written from the viewpoint of the time, which could be "disproven" later on, but I don't believe that a candidate who was the party's nominee twice before who lost, no matter how narrow the margins, is gonna be given another go at it. In this case, third time is not the charm.

I suspect your first surmise is right and that is what is intended - I just suspect that it wouldn't be so in reality if this was the situation. However, I think it is a reasonable point of variability that could go either way depending on other conditions.

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by joea64

With the much greater popularity of SF TTL, I can't help but think that if "UFO" is produced and broadcast in the UK, it's going to be picked up by one of the other networks as a rival to "Doctor Who". The rather grimdark nature of "UFO", though, might be a handicap, given that the overall zeitgeist of TTL is distinctly more optimistic than OTL.

I'd agree *"UFO" ("you foe", for the uninititated) is likely to both get picked up & last longer. IMO, it'd be a hybrid with "1999" (or "Moonbase 3"). As for grimdarkness, this was raised before. Brit SF need not be affected by brighter U.S.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by joea64

I did a search and nobody at all seems to have brought up Gerry Anderson's "UFO", except in passing. OTL, the series ran on ITV in the UK in 1970-71 (the same year as the 5th and last season of Trek ITTL) and was picked up by CBS, IIRC, for the 1972-1973 season. (I remember watching it in Florida that year; BTW, I was born in 1964, so my first exposure to Trek OTL was in syndication.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_(TV_series)

With the much greater popularity of SF TTL, I can't help but think that if "UFO" is produced and broadcast in the UK, it's going to be picked up by one of the other networks as a rival to "Doctor Who". The rather grimdark nature of "UFO", though, might be a handicap, given that the overall zeitgeist of TTL is distinctly more optimistic than OTL.

I did kind of mention a BBC series of UNIT as an alternative to UFO...

Originally Posted by phx1138

I'd agree *"UFO" ("you foe", for the uninititated) is likely to both get picked up & last longer. IMO, it'd be a hybrid with "1999" (or "Moonbase 3"). As for grimdarkness, this was raised before. Brit SF need not be affected by brighter U.S.

... and if UNIT gets the go ahead TTL it'd form a good competition with the alt UFO. Perhaps the ITV group will then try to come up with another () competitor to Doctor Who?

[Glen]

Originally Posted by The Professor

I did kind of mention a BBC series of UNIT as an alternative to UFO...



... and if UNIT gets the go ahead TTL it'd form a good competition with the alt UFO. Perhaps the ITV group will then try to come up with another () competitor to Doctor Who?

I would think that UNIT and UFO would not entirely be the same audience/demographic, though of course with some overlap.

[Brainbin]

Looks like you're all going to coax one more round of responses out of me before the next update. But this is probably the last one. Maybe.

Originally Posted by Glen

Trapper John, M.D., really wasn't a MASH spinoff - it was a completely separate medical drama that someone slapped a Trapper John name on and hallucinated a MASH connection IOTL. I think it would be hilarious to see essentially the same show with a different name and no attempt at connecting, as that is what it really should be.

So, a generic medical drama premiering in the late 1970s, starring one of the Cartwright Brothers from "Bonanza"? Well, why not?

Originally Posted by Glen

They might, but given the history ITTL, I think the pitch goes to Warner Brothers and Desilu (instead of Paramount). I think you have the same people ITTL still working at Warner Brothers, and thus I think Desilu picks it up.

Paramount Television certainly has a "style" in the early 1970s ITTL - which you may have noticed even if you know nothing about Grant Tinker's OTL exploits - and a walking-the-earth action-adventure series like "Kung-Fu" has no place there, I agree. By contrast, Desilu has become the action-adventure studio, with "Night Gallery" being their first foray outside the genre since "The Lucy Show" ended in 1968.

Originally Posted by Glen

I understand. I wouldn't expect most of the shows to go to Desilu (though that does beg the question of just how many shows at one time Desilu will carry). However, in this particular case I think Desilu makes sound sense, so I would favor it over some of the other suggestions already proffered for Desilu.

One important factor - and you are taking it into consideration, but I emphasize it for the benefit of all my other readers - is That Wacky Redhead herself. She has her own personal tastes, and she's very hands-on about her job - that's why she got burnout juggling her two careers in the late 1960s. She's very proud of her studio's long-standing reputation as a trailblazer, and intends to keep it up.

Originally Posted by Glen

A point, though it depends on how successful the show is - if it only goes for three seasons (I suspect that Desilu will fight hard to keep their productions in production for at least that long for syndication purposes), still might see the rest of his career and life converging. If it goes more, then yeah, I think his death in that manner is butterflied.

Well, of course that's what Desilu wants, but to quote a great philosopher: You can't always get what you want. The reason that Lucille Ball was able to go to bat for Star Trek ITTL was because viewer demographics (which were known at the time, if not weighted nearly as heavily as they are today) were phenomenal, and ratings were a little higher than IOTL, to boot. If a hypothetical "Kung-Fu" series - or any other Desilu production, for that matter - doesn't have a leg to stand on, then it'll be put on the chopping block, same as any other show.

Originally Posted by Glen

So I shall expect it in two days, no more.

Don't make me pull the "It'll be ready when it's ready" card. Because I'll do it if I have to

Originally Posted by neamathla

According to the US court system, Trapper John was a spinoff of the movie not the tv series. I only remember the show mentioning Hawkeye and Korea in the pilot, so your concept would work.

That's typical Hollywood behaviour for you. Steal an idea, and then screw the rightful owner out of their fair share by using loopholes!

Originally Posted by phx1138

I'd say, rather, we (at least I) forsee Desilu producing the best shows of the '70s. Does that mean only 4 at a time? IDK. How many was Mark VII (Jack Webb) making ("Ironside" & "Emergency" come to mind)? Or QM ("Streets of San Francisco", "FBI", "Barnaby Jones")?

Desilu considers four to be an optimal number, but by no means is it an obligation. For example, the studio will be entering the 1971-72 season with only three first-run series on the air - obviously they'll be accepting more pitches, but that's for another update.

Originally Posted by phx1138

Is it a given Desilu gets no bigger, on the strength of greater marketing & ratings success? That would surprise me. Does that mean it (necessarily) gets as big as Lorimar? IDK, but it's worth considering. And that is for many, many other updates!

Also, if Desilu does better, does that drive other companies out of business? If it does, does that, therefore, offer opportunities for Desilu to pick up stage space & talent on the "cheap"?

Those are some very excellent, insightful questions. I would answer them, but doing so would spoil... everything

Originally Posted by vultan

Well, here's how Brainbin worded it, and it seems pretty explicit to me that Nixon won't be returning in 1972...

Thank you for quoting the relevant passage, vultan. I hereby award you the Non-Certificate of Achievement for On-Pointedness!

Originally Posted by vultan

Of course, it is theoretically possible that it's written from the viewpoint of the time, which could be "disproven" later on, but I don't believe that a candidate who was the party's nominee twice before who lost, no matter how narrow the margins, is gonna be given another go at it. In this case, third time is not the charm.

As a general rule, most of my posts are written from the POV that the events being described are recent. I've let a few "to this day" and "ever since" references sneak in there, but on the whole, it's safe to make that assumption. (It's a good spoiler deterrent )

Originally Posted by joea64

I did a search and nobody at all seems to have brought up Gerry Anderson's "UFO", except in passing. OTL, the series ran on ITV in the UK in 1970-71 (the same year as the 5th and last season of Trek ITTL) and was picked up by CBS, IIRC, for the 1972-1973 season. (I remember watching it in Florida that year; BTW, I was born in 1964, so my first exposure to Trek OTL was in syndication.)

Welcome aboard, joea64! And thanks for your input. I really enjoyed your thoughts on Viva Balbo! back in my lurker days, and although we're some 30 years down the line chronologically from that TL, I would love to hear more of your thoughts. Even about the women of TTL, if the mood strikes you After all, the 1970s were the last decade when women didn't have to be "fake" to be considered attractive.

Originally Posted by joea64

With the much greater popularity of SF TTL, I can't help but think that if "UFO" is produced and broadcast in the UK, it's going to be picked up by one of the other networks as a rival to "Doctor Who". The rather grimdark nature of "UFO", though, might be a handicap, given that the overall zeitgeist of TTL is distinctly more optimistic than OTL.

As phx1138 pointed out, I've shared my opinion that British society in general will not share that same burst of optimism affecting the USA ITTL. They can see the light from the fire all the way across the pond, but they aren't quite able to bask in its warmth.

Originally Posted by Glen

I suspect your first surmise is right and that is what is intended - I just suspect that it wouldn't be so in reality if this was the situation. However, I think it is a reasonable point of variability that could go either way depending on other conditions.

All right, let's talk about Tricky Dick. As vultan observed, I intended for him to be finished with electoral politics after his third heartbreaking defeat. He might be personally interested in running again for 1972, but let's be real. He's already lost twice. Stevenson didn't get three shots, after all! Besides, the most recent two-time loser to be nominated by a major party for a third shot was William Jennings Bryan, in 1908; but Bryan was much younger than Nixon was in 1972, and far more energetic and charismatic. Not to mention, Nixon was a very smart man; he would know that he stood no chance of becoming the nominee after flaming out twice before. As OTL 1972 proved, Nixon wanted a free ride, and did everything in his power to arrange one; would he have the energy for another hard-fought campaign?

Originally Posted by The Professor

... and if UNIT gets the go ahead TTL it'd form a good competition with the alt UFO. Perhaps the ITV group will then try to come up with another () competitor to Doctor Who?

Success breeds imitation, even across the pond. Though it does amuse me that everyone is set on this spin-off. It's almost as bad as the Muppets! And given that, I think we finally have our fourth entry for the That Wacky Redhead drinking game!

Also, I would like to award the No-Prize for Verbosity to Glen, who has now surpassed me as the most prolific contributor to this thread!

I continue to appreciate everyone's ideas, and all of this discussion. If all goes well, you may well see the next update tomorrow!

[PW MAX]

Just to note my own birthday, (since I see a few others have), I was born in February, 1980. A real fan of the classic TV though, ever since I was a kid.

Still loving this timeline, can't wait to see what's next.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Looks like you're all going to coax one more round of responses out of me before the next update. But this is probably the last one. Maybe.

As you see fit.

So, a generic medical drama premiering in the late 1970s, starring one of the Cartwright Brothers from "Bonanza"? Well, why not?

Pretty much.

Paramount Television certainly has a "style" in the early 1970s ITTL - which you may have noticed even if you know nothing about Grant Tinker's OTL exploits - and a walking-the-earth action-adventure series like "Kung-Fu" has no place there, I agree.

Yeah - I like a lot of his shwos, but Kung Fu doesn't fit really.

By contrast, Desilu has become the action-adventure studio, with "Night Gallery" being their first foray outside the genre since "The Lucy Show" ended in 1968.

Maybe the thinking man's action-adventure, though she dumbed down Mannix it appears (and thus the show lived many more seasons).

One important factor - and you are taking it into consideration, but I emphasize it for the benefit of all my other readers - is That Wacky Redhead herself. She has her own personal tastes, and she's very hands-on about her job - that's why she got burnout juggling her two careers in the late 1960s. She's very proud of her studio's long-standing reputation as a trailblazer, and intends to keep it up.

Exactly so - that should be the touchstone by which anything coming out of Desilu is judged.

Well, of course that's what Desilu wants, but to quote a great philosopher: You can't always get what you want. The reason that Lucille Ball was able to go to bat for Star Trek ITTL was because viewer demographics (which were known at the time, if not weighted nearly as heavily as they are today) were phenomenal, and ratings were a little higher than IOTL, to boot. If a hypothetical "Kung-Fu" series - or any other Desilu production, for that matter - doesn't have a leg to stand on, then it'll be put on the chopping block, same as any other show.

Agreed, but I suspect most of us are betting that That Wacky Redhead will have both the bettter taste and the better skills/resources to actually pick and foster winners in her stable. Thus we imagine her failures, at least for the foreseeable future will be few and far in between.

Don't make me pull the "It'll be ready when it's ready" card. Because I'll do it if I have to

Oh, play it whenever you'd like...

That's typical Hollywood behaviour for you. Steal an idea, and then screw the rightful owner out of their fair share by using loopholes!

Yep - point remains though that the show really isn't derived from ANY of the MASH media except in borrowing a name.

Desilu considers four to be an optimal number, but by no means is it an obligation. For example, the studio will be entering the 1971-72 season with only three first-run series on the air - obviously they'll be accepting more pitches, but that's for another update.

Indeed, and I'm guessing that TTL's Happy Days will be one of them from your foreshadowing.

All right, let's talk about Tricky Dick. As vultan observed, I intended for him to be finished with electoral politics after his third heartbreaking defeat. He might be personally interested in running again for 1972, but let's be real. He's already lost twice. Stevenson didn't get three shots, after all! Besides, the most recent two-time loser to be nominated by a major party for a third shot was William Jennings Bryan, in 1908; but Bryan was much younger than Nixon was in 1972, and far more energetic and charismatic. Not to mention, Nixon was a very smart man; he would know that he stood no chance of becoming the nominee after flaming out twice before. As OTL 1972 proved, Nixon wanted a free ride, and did everything in his power to arrange one; would he have the energy for another hard-fought campaign?

The difference here is just how close he came. But it is fine to have him go a different path.

Success breeds imitation, even across the pond. Though it does amuse me that everyone is set on this spin-off. It's almost as bad as the Muppets! And given that, I think we finally have our fourth entry for the That Wacky Redhead drinking game!

Remind me again what else we have in the drinking game? Don't want to mess up, right?

Also, I would like to award the No-Prize for Verbosity to Glen, who has now surpassed me as the most prolific contributor to this thread!

Thank you (I think). This is not the first time I've been recognized for my communications volume.

I continue to appreciate everyone's ideas, and all of this discussion. If all goes well, you may well see the next update tomorrow!

I will look forward to it tomorrow then.