1817 War of 1812

[The Saint]

WI the USA invaded Canada after the Napoleonic wars, say in 1817 instead of 1812?

Whilst the US will be stronger than in 1812, the British will have lots of hardened "Sharpe's Rifles" veterans available, and by then they would have assimilated Napoleon's tactics of always seeking combat even when in retreat, surprise manoeuvres, logistics, Napoleon's brilliant insight into the enemy's psychology ("in war, the morale is to the material as three is to one" was his favourite motto), flank attack, the "double battle" concept, concealment, envelopment by advance, circulation of false information, pursuit and rout.

Especially if the Battle of New Orleans goes to the British, the US may be on the ropes, and a United Dominion of America might endure in the south until some kind of reunification treaty in the 1860s.

[DMA]

The 1817 War pretty well starts resembling the 1812 War. Meaning pretty much stalemate.

Then the RN establish their blockade of the eastern coast of the USA. Considering the USN & merchant navy has only had 3 years to recover from the 1812 War, there's almost no competition offered to the RN.

On land the British reinforce their position in Canada. These include their veterans from Waterloo including a reconstituted German Legion.

From 1818 onwards, the Americans face defeat after defeat against overwhelming odds. It wouldn't surprise me if Washington (including the White House) gets burnt down again.

Probably in 1819 the USA uses for peace. Whilst the UK doesn't grab much US territory per se, it will probably take a lot of the western area like Oregan & so forth. It may even impose itself around Texas etc. So in latter years, the map of the USA is different insofar as Texas (& maybe one or two other regions in the South) are British, likewise so is much of the west coast & so forth.

[Nicole]

DMA, two flaws:
1) The First post seems to say there was no War of 1812 at all. This War of 1817 replaces it.
2) Texas was Mexican in 1817.

[DMA]

Originally Posted by Imajin

DMA, two flaws:
1) The First post seems to say there was no War of 1812 at all. This War of 1817 replaces it.

Oh I missed that. Thanks. I just got up & need my second cup of tea

Well if there's no 1812 War, then the 1817 War pretty much follows the 1812 War except, in the latter stages of the War, British superiority, having not been distracted by the Napoleonic Wars anymore, soon make their impact upon the war. The US has to sue for peace. The terms are pretty much what I said above.

Originally Posted by Imajin

2) Texas was Mexican in 1817.

In regards to Texas - the UK has a "presence" there - I didn’t mean it actually takes it. When, of course Texas revolts, it moves in & claims it as a protectorate. Obviously it lets the Texans do all the fighting first

[The Saint]

The Anglo-american war of 1812 was in effect caused by the Napoleonic wars.

The two main reasons the US went to war was the RN's impressment of sailors from US ships and the seizure of US ships attempting to trade with France and her Allies.

In 1817 these wouldn't apply.

In 1812 the USA realized that Britain was involved in a major war with France, and wouldn't be able to fully react to their attack on Canada.

While in 1817 Britain could bring her full might to this conflict.

[Sir Isaac Brock]

Originally Posted by The Saint

The Anglo-american war of 1812 was in effect caused by the Napoleonic wars.

The two main reasons the US went to war was the RN's impressment of sailors from US ships and the seizure of US ships attempting to trade with France and her Allies.

The main reason for the war was a naked and bold-faced land grab by the would-be imperialist in the US Congress.

In 1817 these wouldn't apply.

In 1812 the USA realized that Britain was involved in a major war with France, and wouldn't be able to fully react to their attack on Canada.

While in 1817 Britain could bring her full might to this conflict.

Exactly. The US gov't saw the mother bird (Britain) was away from the nest (Canada) and swooped in like a vulture. The US wasn't strong enough to take Canada from Britain anyway, but they thought they were while the British were busy with Napolean. Without that opening, the US won't dare to take on the Empire. At least not for another 50 years...