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#461
December 22nd, 2011, 11:34 PM
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Happy and Glorious
continued The illustrious class carrier HMS Formidable was, like Hood being repaired in the USA. She was almost ready and was embarking Martlets. Initially it was decided that once repaired she would sail for the Mediterranean. After Pearl Harbor she was to go Singapore but now with the American request for Hood approved Admiral King, the British hating American admiral decided to ask for Formidable too. He argued that the Americans needed carriers in the Pacific more than the British needed them in Asia. He also argued that the Hood probably wouldn't be ready until January 1943 and that the Americans needed help now. Churchill wanted to say no and he almost did. In the end he agreed but he said he desperately needed new tanks for North Africa and was able to persuade the Americans not to divert so much aid earmarked for Britain to equip their own forces now they were in the war. In particular he wanted the medium bombers and P40 fighters to keep coming. A deal was struck. ******* Outside Kuala Lumper the British had succeeded in establishing defensive positions on favourable ground. Backed by Matilda and some old cruiser tanks she repulsed the first Japanese attacks. Soon the battlefield was littered with 19 burning Japanese tanks to one cruiser tank lost. The Japanese were forced to wait for the artillery and for the airforce to pound the British positions. Unfortunately many of the British troops were well camouflaged and the bombing was not particularly effective although it did terrorize the civilians. As 1941 turned into 1942 the Japanese were still nowhere nearer Kuala Lumper than they had been on Christmas day. However on the east coast Kuantan had fallen. TBC 
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#462
December 23rd, 2011, 01:24 AM
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Also how far behind schedule are the Japanese forces in Malaya anyway?
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#463
December 23rd, 2011, 01:36 AM
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Happy and Glorious
continued Prime Minister Curtin of Australia was deeply unhappy about the way Australian troops had been used in Greece, North Africa and the Middle East, while the 'yellow peril' grew on their own doorstep. To an Australian Prime Minister own doorstep meant anything south of Hong Kong. With Pearl Harbor every Australian nightmare seemed to come true. Curtin was inclined to blame the British for Australia's vulnerability and was showing signs of turning to the United States for help. To a sentimental Imperialist like Churchill this was disappointing. This disappointment slowly turned to anger as Curtin bombarded him with requests for reinforcements and assurances. To Churchill who had spent the last year and a half with the German army just 25-30 miles from the English coast Curtin's protestations seemed hysterical. Nevertheless, he was a Dominion Prime Minister and he deserved to be listened to. By sending the Prince of Wales Churchill believed he was sending a powerful message not just to Curtin but to the Australian people as a whole. It worked. The arrival of the Prince of Wales under the Sydney Harbour Bridge was one of the big photo ops of WW2 in Australia. Crowds flocked to see her and union jacks were waved feverishly. The British Empire had not abandoned them. Curtin knew that the Prince of Wales had been damaged and was of dubious military value but the Japanese didn't know that. The blast damage had been painted over and she looked magnificent in the summer sun. In the Middle East the Australians had two divisions, the 6th and the 7th. Curtin wanted both of them back in Australia. Churchill wanted them for himself. At first he suggested sending them to Singapore. Initially Curtin warmed to this but by Mid December he was being told that Malaya could be lost and that Singapore would face a long siege at best. He now wanted the two divisions in Australia and he had significant support in this. The arrival of Prince of Wales tipped the balance back in favour of the imperial connection. The day after Christmas Curtin told Churchill that he could have both divisions on the condition that they would be sent to Australia if she were seriously threatened with invasion. In the meantime Curtin set about mobilizing Australia as never before and would raise fresh divisions for home defence. TBC
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#464
December 23rd, 2011, 01:41 AM
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#465
December 23rd, 2011, 05:49 AM
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Well I have caught up to the end of the action and I will admit I have found some of the stuff a little "strange" and makes the plausibility factor a little hard to swallow. But as others have said, the whole results that the Japanese has IOTL was as ASB as it comes. I so will continue to let things slide, enjoy the ride, and wait to see how Burma and Coral Sea will work itself out.
Thanks as always for the fun. 
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#466
December 24th, 2011, 05:23 AM
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Australia isn't in danger of invasion (or ever will be) but it might be if the British and the Americans are driven out of the region. The Australians cannot defend themselves whether they have 2 extra divisions or not. They will need help from the US/UK. The psychological blow of losing Force Z hasn't happened in this ATL. This means that Australia feels less vulnerable than OTL in terms of feeling if not practical military reality. As I said the arrival Of Prince of Wales was a political gesture and not a military one. Besides, the Japanese don't know how damaged she is and neither do the Australian people or MP's.
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#467
December 24th, 2011, 05:32 AM
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OTL the Victorious went to the Pacific in 1943. Not all that late in the war. Churchill wasn't all that helpful, he has just asked the Americans to slow down with the equipping of their own forces and asked for the supply of tanks and planes to continue uninterruped to Britain. Not a bad trade for a carrier that was being repaired in the US anyway. Also remember that HMS Glorious, the' star of this show' is still around so he has an extra carrier compared with OTL and the ATL request came in December 1941 not 1942 and came on the back of a request for Hood being accepted.
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#468
December 24th, 2011, 05:41 AM
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The Japanese are still winning. Only difference is that an extra Hurricane squadron was sent from Britain before the invasion and Force Z took two carriers with her and lost one of them. I even had the Japanese send more planes against Force Z than they did OTL.
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#471
December 24th, 2011, 01:01 PM
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Happy and Glorious
continued American-British-Dutch-Australian Command was formally established on January 1st 1942. The area covered included pretty much everything owned by the White man in Asia east of India. It had the defence of Burma, Malaya, Dutch East Indies, Philippines, New Guinea and parts of Australia under its remit. The Supreme Commander was Archibald Wavell. The appointment of Wavell who had been effectively kicked out of the Middle East by Churchill reflected the British Prime Mininister's complacency about the Far Eastern situation and how low it was on his list of priorities. On the other hand Wavell had been partly responsible for victories over the Italians in North Africa and Ethiopia and had overseen the occupation of Syria and Iraq. All on a shoestring budget. Perhaps he could that here too. After all they were only Japanese! The command was a bit of a mess to start with and there was a lot of political gesturing to do. Giving command of land forces to Hein ter Poorten of the Netherlands was seen as a supreme act of gesturing but in the end his understanding of the region was greater than any other of the Allied commanders. The appointment of USN Admiral Hart to command naval forces was seen as a little controversial. Most thought Admiral Holland should have got the job but an American had to command something so he got the job. Commander of air forces went to Brooke-Popham a role for which he was better suited. However, Churchill had decided to replace him soon. The problem was who with? This would be linked to a battle of strategy that was being waged in London. Admiral Holland had returned to Trincomalee and remained commander Far Eastern Fleet. He had the Renown, Glorious, Exeter and woefully few destoryers. Indomitable would be coming soon with another cruiser. Not much of a force but better than nothing. He had asked if Repulse was available but he was told she was needed in Home waters until King George V had finished her repairs after striking a mine during the Bismarck hunt. After that she was supposed to go for a refit to upgrade her AA capability and have improved radar. TBC
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#472
December 24th, 2011, 01:09 PM
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To join the discussion, started by Usertron2020, I also think it would be strategically unwise to send a damaged capital ship to region, purely for political reasons, while it was in need of repairs adn also was needed more urgently as an active fighting unit in other parts of the world, like the Atlantic, dispite the ATL absense of German surfaceships, appart form one potential threat in the form of Tirpitz, which could only be cournered by three King George V class BB's, which was the number already in service, as both Howe and Anson were not yet in commission. Sending HMS Prince of Wales to the Eastern Fleet always had been at least questionable to start with, as the ship was urgently needed closer at home in the OTL and this ATL.
Best option would have been to send the damaged battleship directly home, via Capetown, where she would continue to either the UK, or USA Eastcoast, as long as it was in the Atlantic, which was her home to start with. In reversal order, the Eastern Fleet woudl possibly be temporarily reenforced by the old Royal Sovereign class battleships, more or less seen as a fleet in beeing to try to force the Japanese to keep large forces in the SE Asia Region (Which they did not in the OTL). These old ships already were obsolete and due for retirement, but had their uses as fleet in beeing. The two undamaged King George V class ships; (HMS King George V and Duke of York) plus the damaged HMS Prince of Wales, would form the core of the Homefleet in their North Atlantic realm, forcing Tirpitz to stay out of the open seas, while the older, but very capable HMS Nelson (after her repairs were compelted) and the Rodney would remain available as well for either Atlantic, or (west) Mediteranean Service, with the remainig Queen Elisabeth class ships in the Mediteranean adn the Repulse and Renown available for what ever service might be needed. HMS Hood was to be available in about one year again, possibly joining the Homefleet again. Then she would be joined by the Anson and Howe as well, allowing King George V and Prince of Wales to get refitted for Pacific Service.
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#473
December 24th, 2011, 01:18 PM
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I don't think you need 3 x KGV class to 'corner Tirpitz'. One Fully worked up KGV with a carrier, plus attendant cruisers and destroyers can disable her I think. Prince of Wales is not a cripple either. She can do 25 knots if necessary and her guns are intact. I agree she will need proper repair at some stage and will be replaced soon.
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#474
December 24th, 2011, 02:08 PM
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#475
December 24th, 2011, 02:27 PM
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Also a point you made earlier about the two divisions containing a Japanese invasion. Don't think so. If the Japanese attemped to make a real landing they would slow them down but that's all.
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#476
December 24th, 2011, 04:41 PM
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Happy and Glorious
continued The Japanese finally broke through the 11th Indian division and were able to resume their advance. Desperate rearguards were used but in the end Kuala Lumper fell on January 15th. South of Kuala Lumper elements of the Australian 8th division were taking up positions. There were now signs that a Japanese invasion of Burma was now ready to start. There the forces were even less adequate than in Malaya but behind them was India not the sea. ABDA command was finding difficult to point to any success. Wavell was in Singapore and was beginning to think that he had been given a poisoned chalice. He wondered how he could get out it. At Trincomalee Admiral Holland had been joined by the Heavy cruiser Cornwall and Emerald class cruiser Enterprise. Across the Indian ocean the 18th infantry division had been diverted from the Middle East and was on its way to Singapore. Among he escort was the Heavy cruiser Dorsetshire.
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#477
December 24th, 2011, 05:02 PM
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The Japanese lacked the shipping to present a real invasion threat, but, like many things, it is a matter of semblence rather than substance.
As such, sending the Prince of Wales (and possibly later Renown and a carrier) does work out surprisingly well. The British knew they could not send anything and we knew they could not send anything; however, going through the motions of appearing to send something works on the principle of 'the thought counts'. It keeps up part of the 'Imperial contract', as it has been characterized in similar works elsewhere. This is not enough to change the need for the AIF. The Australian government would definitely push for the two AIF divisions to be in Australia as soon as possible and would view any attempts to alter from this course of action in the strongest terms possible. From the Australian point of view, their worst nightmares are coming true and the enemy they've fretted about for years is at the gates. The pressure to bring the AIF home was not a small matter. I'd agree with usertron that the Australian troops are far better used in the SWPA; Burma is very important and holding it can be extremely pivotal, but there are other sources of troops that don't need the negative political blowback that comes from perceived misuse of the two AIF divisions. Sending further RAF fighter and bomber squadrons would be a good way to back up the perceived 'reinforcement' effect of the Prince of Wales, along with even a token brigade (if the desire was there for grandiose gestures, then the HQ of the Royal Marines Division with 29th Infantry Brigade is a possibility). There were significant reasons why this did not occur historically, but there is enough slack in the system at this time to do something if the will was there and drivers different. Apart from this, it is growing into an excellent TL so far with a nice balance of action and exposition.
__________________
Geese should not laugh at a holy wolf.
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#478
December 24th, 2011, 05:06 PM
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In the OTL, the Royal Navy considered the bare minimum to courner Tirpitz to be three King George V class battleships, as this would allow one at any time available for operations against the German ship, with one on either convoy duty, or otherwise deployed in the North Atlantic/Arctic and one under refit/repair.
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#479
December 24th, 2011, 09:19 PM
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#480
December 24th, 2011, 09:48 PM
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That might not be so, as the unpredictable German leadership might change again in their course fro naval warfare. The King George V class therefore was always a must have in the North Atlantic and Arctic, as mentioned, which means that the ship on a convoy protection mission, is not in the convoy, but acts as a distand cover force, as in the OTL, with one other battleship waiting as a reserve in Scapa Flow, in case of a break out and one in repair or refit, as mentioned. By the way, in decemebr 1941, the Germans were already at war with Russia for half a year, meaning the Murmansk route already was activated.
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You have Australia trading a pair of aces for a four of clubs. Burma is to the WEST of Singapore and the DEI. Australia is to the SOUTH of Singapore and the DEI. You don't need to be a military genius to see the implications of THAT to an Australian.
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