Happy and Glorious.

[sharlin]

Sounds like the suffolks going to keel over, she needs to fight her fires too. The Hoods in a bad way but the Bismarks been mission killed, but she now faces the unenviable task of getting home in her state.

We also need to know what that 14 inch round did to the already battered Hipper, the Hipper classes machinery was quite unsympathetic to heavy shock impact, it being a maintenance hog and the last thing any ship needs is a 14 inch round going off somewhere in her hull, assuming the round does not detonte in the extensive superstructure.

A damn fine story so far and yes..that music matches perfectly!

This oddly reminds me of a battle I had on the OLD game Great Naval Battles of the North Atlantic.

In that I fought in the Rhinburg scinario and failed to intercept the Bismark with initial forces I had. Her and the PE found a convy escorted by HMS London, HMS Sheffield and 4 Tribal Class DDs. Fighting to cover the convoy the London was crippled and IRL would have been a constructive total write off if she managed to get home at all. The Sheffield and DDs shot near all their ammo off and managed to get 3 torp hits on the Bismark and 4 on the PE which sunk on fire. The damaged Bismark was found days later by the Rodney, Revenge, Queen Elizabeth, Hood and assorted cruisers/DDs. I always thought there would be some kind of heroic music playing as the battered Bismark went to her doom and that is it. Thank you very much!

[simonbp]

Originally Posted by sharlin

...the Bismarks been mission killed, but she now faces the unenviable task of getting home in her state.

Yea, that's the key: after the gun-on-gun fight is done, the Germans are still going to be harried by aircraft from 2-3 British carriers. Any speed they lost in battle will increase their chances of being tracked and hunted by the carriers.

[Astrodragon]

I'm rather surprised at the damage done by a few 11" shells to the big county class cruisers, given how much damage 3 much smaller cruisers took at the Battle of the River Plate. Seems a bit generous to the Germans...

Also rather suprised Holland is looking at withdrawing for 2 reasons - first, hes going to open Hoods vulnerable deck armour as he opens the range, and second RN doctrine was to close to decisive range (for BB's around 16,000 yards) and sink the enemy, accepting the damage done to their own ships.

Noone ever sent in a torpedo stroke in the middle of a BB engagment, I wonder what the results would have been. Bloody scary for the pilots at least! I wonder if Holland would do better to keep up the action while the strike goes in, or not...guess it depends how far out the strike is.

[zert]

Waiting to see what happens when the planes have a chance to show up again. Also, why did Holland just not wait until after the third strike to happen before charging in? Would the delay of a couple of hours really of hurt the chase?

[NORGCO]

Originally Posted by zert

Waiting to see what happens when the planes have a chance to show up again. Also, why did Holland just not wait until after the third strike to happen before charging in? Would the delay of a couple of hours really of hurt the chase?

I'm assuming he didn't want the airstrike comming in during the battle because of the possibility of a friendly fire incident. British torpedo bombers DID attack a British warship after mistaking it for Bismark IOTL, fortunately not sinking it.

As to the effectiveness of the torpedo plane attack, A) Has the weather calmed enough so the problem with the first attempt won't happen again? B) Should they focus on finishing off one of the cripples or go for Bismark which on past performance will at most only knock a knot or two off its speed?

[usertron2020]

I am just starting to see the shadow of a thumb on the scales in favor of the Germans. Unless somebody takes a shot to the magazines, that is.*BOOM!*

[Devolved]

Bismarck is in a poor condition too. A turret has been knocked out and she's no longer firing as accurately as before.

Holland is withdrawing because he knows he will lose Hood if he stays in the battle much longer. He sees no purpose in losing his ship now that he knows another torpedo strike will soon be ready.

The counties are in a bad state because they had already been damaged during the previous nights' battle with Hipper and Prinz Eugen.

The Torpedo attack will deal with Bismarck if she tries to pursue Hood.

Finally, the Bismarck has taken multiple heavy calibre hits and this will reduce her AA capabability quite a lot. The Swordfish won't be subjected to the same curtain of fire as OTL.

[Devolved]

Perhaps the Inception theme for the next Swordfish attack.

[usertron2020]

Well, Birmarck didn't have to face the heaviest caliber fire of the Rodney. But she can't be expected to just laugh off torpedo strike after torpedo strike all the live long day and just mark off a lost knot of speed for every other fish that hits her. Granted, it took a huge number of fish to sink the Yamato's, but the Bismarck is not a Yamato.

The OTL Golden BB fish that doomed Bismarck almost becomes inevitable when you consider that unlike the British, the Germans are operating far from home and with no escorts! The thing is, under such circumstances, a hit is likely to do little damage, OR A LOT!

BTW? Which Bismarck turret was knocked out? Can I assume "B", since the good captain has been killed?

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by usertron2020

BTW? Which Bismarck turret was knocked out? Can I assume "B", since the good captain has been killed?

I didn't specify so Why not.

[El Pip]

Originally Posted by usertron2020

I am just starting to see the shadow of a thumb on the scales in favor of the Germans. Unless somebody takes a shot to the magazines, that is.*BOOM!*

It is amazing how many torpedoes have been fired for almost no significant effect. On this basis I'd expect the next strike from Glorious to also achieve bugger all, just to keep the pattern going.

[sharlin]

RN air dropped torps were not the biggest, and they would not be the ones that had Torpex as a warhead which was much more distructive and effective. The Bismarks torpedo defences were also VERY good.

[fastmongrel]

Originally Posted by sharlin

RN air dropped torps were not the biggest, and they would not be the ones that had Torpex as a warhead which was much more distructive and effective. The Bismarks torpedo defences were also VERY good.

FAA torpedoes were lighter than other navies air dropped torpedoes but not by all that much and the cumulative effect of hits by 388 pounds of TNT warheads must be weakening the torpedo defence. Maybe the next one is the straw that will break the camels back.

[Astrodragon]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Bismarck is in a poor condition too. A turret has been knocked out and she's no longer firing as accurately as before.

Holland is withdrawing because he knows he will lose Hood if he stays in the battle much longer. He sees no purpose in losing his ship now that he knows another torpedo strike will soon be ready.

The counties are in a bad state because they had already been damaged during the previous nights' battle with Hipper and Prinz Eugen.

The Torpedo attack will deal with Bismarck if she tries to pursue Hood.

Finally, the Bismarck has taken multiple heavy calibre hits and this will reduce her AA capabability quite a lot. The Swordfish won't be subjected to the same curtain of fire as OTL.

Oh, all good points, I'm just bneing a devil's advocate here...

[Astrodragon]

Originally Posted by NORGCO

I'm assuming he didn't want the airstrike comming in during the battle because of the possibility of a friendly fire incident. British torpedo bombers DID attack a British warship after mistaking it for Bismark IOTL, fortunately not sinking it.

As to the effectiveness of the torpedo plane attack, A) Has the weather calmed enough so the problem with the first attempt won't happen again? B) Should they focus on finishing off one of the cripples or go for Bismark which on past performance will at most only knock a knot or two off its speed?

Regarding the weather, even in the North Atlantic it rarely keeps being bad continuously at that time of year. The more usual pattern is bad weather followed by better then bad again as the storm fronts sweep west-east. So as it was bad the day before, its reasonable to have it improving (it still wont be wonderful, but it will be better). This, iirc, would be roughly the case in OTL, the weather had improved when the Hood and PoW attacked, but was still poor (Hoods forward rangefinders werent any use due to spray, which was unfortunate as they were her longest ones)

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious


continued


The 14" hit on the Hipper caused immense damage. She had been reduced to 16 knots. The captain listened impassively as he was told that it may be possible to get the ship moving at 21 knots soon.

Luckily the Prince of Wales ceased firing very soon after hitting the Hipper. The orders from Admiral Holland were clear. Pull away from the German fleet and wait for the Swordfish to attack. Captain Leach thought that thew Swordfish crew would know the difference between British and German ships but Admiral Holland was taking no chances.

Admiral Marschall changed his coat. He could no longer stand the smell of Captain Lindemanns' blood that had been splattered over the arms and shoulder. The news about the Hipper confirmed his decision not to pursue Hood. Damage repair teams were frantically dealing with the mess on the Bismarck. The good news was that Bismarck's engines could still give him 28 knots if he wanted.

The Captain of the Gneisenau sent a glowing report of the damage he had inflicted on the Counties. He then said that perhaps it was time for Bismarck to save herself and leave him with the Hipper to go down fighting. Admiral Marschall was thinking along the same lines but wondered if he was too late.

Admiral Holland was told that the Hood should reduce speed to 23 knots in order not to aggravate the flooding. He made a quick tour of the deck and could see nothing but twisted metal, torn pieces of flesh, dead and wounded and bodies. Sailors sprang to attention and saluted when they saw him. No one uttered any complaints and he felt both immensely upset and immensely proud. There was no doubt in his mind tht he made the right decision to break off the action.

Note.


Body count in The Battle of Iceland so far;

British Losses

1xdestroyer sunk by Hipper 107 dead

1 destroyer heavily damaged by hipper 28 dead

2 destroyers lightly damaged 8 dead

HMS Suffolk 23 dead

HMS Norfolk 63 dead

HMS Hood 158 dead

HMS Glorious 2 dead

HMS Prince Of Wales 1 dead


Total British losses = 390 dead


German Losses

Hipper 84 dead

Gneisenau 5 dead

Bismarck 87 dead


Total German dead = 176 dead

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious

continued


Thirteen Swordfish and three Fulmars are launched from the HMS Glorious.


Admiral Holland decides that the Suffolk should return home. She has brought the flooding under control but her speed is now 15 knots.

The situation on the Hood becomes clearer. She has one turret completely knocked out but the other three are still battleworthy. The ship would be able to fight again but he was warned not to push her above 24 knots.

The Prince of Wales fixed its turret problem and declared she was at 100%.


The Bismarck also had one 15" turret knocked out as well as a lot of her secondary and AA batteries. She was still leaking water and although still capable of 28 knots was advised to keep her at 26 knots unless there's an emergency. The ship now prepared itself for air attack.


It was now broad daylight and the Swordfish were clearly visible. The Gneisenau opened fire immediately but she was too far from the Bismarck to influence matters much.

The Bismarck held its fire until the Swordfish began their run. When they opened up Admiral Marschall could clearly see just how diminished his AA firepower had become.

The Fulmars commenced strafing. This time the Bismarck crew were expecting them. Despite this they falied to bring down any Fulmars and one AA crew member was killed in the first strafing run.

The Swordfish pressed home their attack with even more determination than earlier. The attack was so determined that the Bismarck finally shot one of them down but not until it had dropped its fish in a place where it couldn't miss. The explosion rattled the Bismarck. Loose bits of metal from the earlier ship to ship battle were shaken loose. The engines developed problems and by the end of the first attack run the Bismarck was reduced to 20 knots.

Within ten minutes the attack was over. It had been the longest ten minutes of Marschalls life. The Swordfish pilots had shown great skill and determination and didn't release their torpedoes until they were VERY, VERY close. Some of the Bismarck crew had resorted to using rifles to supplemented the depleted AA defences. In the end two Swordfish were brought down by equally determined German resistance. Of the thirteen torpedoes released three had struck home. It was enough to ensure Bismarck would never get home.

[sharlin]

Now its a job for the PoW and Hood to close in as best they can and finish off the german titan. I'd let the Gnisenau go, she'll either be intercepted by other RN forces or aircraft with luck, or she'll get home to spend a LONG time in repairs whilst hitler no doubt rages and does something drastic to the surface fleet.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by sharlin

Now its a job for the PoW and Hood to close in as best they can and finish off the german titan. I'd let the Gnisenau go, she'll either be intercepted by other RN forces or aircraft with luck, or she'll get home to spend a LONG time in repairs whilst hitler no doubt rages and does something drastic to the surface fleet.

I wonder if I can get the Gneisenau home.

Imagine the look on peoples faces if she comes home again while everyone else gets sunk.

[sharlin]

She'll need some serious work if she does get home and would probably be considered an unlucky ship.

Oh I added another bit to my story, dunno if ye are reading it