Henry Tudor kicks the bucket

[SavoyTruffle]

Inspired by a message my girlfriend sent me over FB, what are the possible ramifications if Henry Tudor dies before becoming king?

To wit, here are some possible scenarios:

1. Henry dies in exile before returning to England (assuming some kind of disease befalls him);
2. Henry gets killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

Inspired by a message my girlfriend sent me over FB, what are the possible ramifications if Henry Tudor dies before becoming king?

To wit, here are some possible scenarios:

1. Henry dies in exile before returning to England (assuming some kind of disease befalls him);
2. Henry gets killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field.

Richard III keeps his kingdom and his horse.

[Fabilius]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Richard III keeps his kingdom and his horse.

Anyone done a TL on more succesful Richard III?

[SavoyTruffle]

Originally Posted by Fabilius

Anyone done a TL on more succesful Richard III?

I've seen a TL or two about Edward IV being more successful and Edward V succeeding but not one where Gloucester is more successful.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Fabilius

Anyone done a TL on more succesful Richard III?

Balckadder Season one.

[CP11]

As everyone has said we would see a longer reigned Richard III. Potentially bad news for Scotland and maybe even France in the long run as Richard had been involved in the wars against Scotland and was known to be opposed to the Treaty of Picquigny.

If anyone does start a TL on this I would be happy to offer my assistance and they would have at least one reader in me

[Mikestone8]

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

Inspired by a message my girlfriend sent me over FB, what are the possible ramifications if Henry Tudor dies before becoming king?

To wit, here are some possible scenarios:

1. Henry dies in exile before returning to England (assuming some kind of disease befalls him);
2. Henry gets killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field.

Richard's opponents have to find another candidate.

The one with the best hereditary (on the Lancastrian side) claim is probably the King of Portugal. Whether he would be interested in pressing it is anybody's guess, but iirc he has younger brothers. Failing them, Archduke (later Emperor) Maximilian I has about the next best claim, and also a useful base of operations in the Netherlands, though he didn't finally establish his authority there till about 1487.

The English wouldn't be enthusiastic about a foreigner, but many would have regarded a Welshman as "foreign" so if they could swallow a Tudor they could probably swallow an Aviz or a Habsburg. Also, Maximilian is widower with a son by a previous marriage, so nis "available" to marry Elizabeth of York and father an English branch of his family.

[DrakeRlugia]

Originally Posted by Mikestone8

Richard's opponents have to find another candidate.

The one with the best hereditary (on the Lancastrian side) claim is probably the King of Portugal. Whether he would be interested in pressing it is anybody's guess, but iirc he has younger brothers. Failing them, Archduke (later Emperor) Maximilian I has about the next best claim, and also a useful base of operations in the Netherlands, though he didn't finally establish his authority there till about 1487.

The English wouldn't be enthusiastic about a foreigner, but many would have regarded a Welshman as "foreign" so if they could swallow a Tudor they could probably swallow an Aviz or a Habsburg. Also, Maximilian is widower with a son by a previous marriage, so nis "available" to marry Elizabeth of York and father an English branch of his family.

The King of Portugal had no interest in pressing his claims; at the time of Bosworth we also had the troubles in Castile, with Alfonso V marrying Joanna La Beltraneja in hopes of having her succeed her (supposed) father Henry V as Queen of Castile, rather than her aunt Isabella succeeding. Portugal is too interested in the fate of Iberia to care about England; there were also plans that Richard III would marry Princess Joan. However, she supposedly had a vision where Richard III died and refused to marry him, later entering a convent. If he wins Bosworth though, it would kinda put her vision and plans into the spanner and she'd probably be married to him. The plan also included Elizabeth of York marrying the future Manuel I.

[CP11]

I think if Tudor dies the Lancastrian cause just about goes with him. I can't see the Portugese or Maximilian having the support or the time to overthrow the Yorkists, unless Richard has a total turn and allies with the French against Maximilian which seems unlikely. The only way to remove Richard is with another Yorkist such as Warwick or Elizabeth.