With any POD after 1054 AD, or later, how big can plausibly Russia get as of 2011? It is required that the country is still recognizable as Russia, in the sense that an Eastern Slavic language reasonably close to Russian is the dominant official language (it is not required that it is the majority language) and the center of power is historically located in OTL European Russia (including Belarus and Ukraine). The actual capital can be located everywhere provided that it is or becomes Russian in character.
AHC/Question: Biggest plausible Russia?
- Thread starter Falecius
- Start date
OTL tsarist empire at its height is probably about it. Russia was already too huge for its own good.
I can easily see some good chunks of steppe and desert in Inner Asia added to it, in the right context. By the way, the POD does not need to be a Russian POD: for example, if you destroy Austria as a power, Russia could straightforwadly get Galicia and Moldavia; but not necessarily keep them.
The only places USSR included that were not part of the Czarist Empire, if I recall correctly, were Tanna Tuva, East Galicia/North Bukovina and Zakarpaty. Quite small stuff in general, relative to the extent of the Empire.
yourworstnightmare
Banned
Yes and the Czarist borders + Tuva, Bukovina, East Galizia and Zarkarpaty is maximum Russia.
MSZ
Banned
Russia winning WWI early and implementing Sazonovs Plan means OTL Soviet borders plus all of East Prussia, Oder-Neisse western border, more of Armenia, possibly Czechia, Slovakia, East Thrace, Dardanelles. Also no Russo-Japanese War means Russia keeps Manchuria.
Could Russia make the Caspian Sea it's internal lake, annex Uiguria or Afghanistan?
Could Russia make the Caspian Sea it's internal lake, annex Uiguria or Afghanistan?
A "bigger" Russia doesn't mean it has to be OTL Russia just bigger. We could have some sort of Scanerio where Russia never goes east into Siberia for one reason or another. Perhaps the Byzantines hold on for another 50-100 years thanks to a few brilliant generals, so when they finally do collapse Ottoman momentum isn't as overwhelming and we see Russia move its focus south instead of East, taking much of the Balkans under its rules while Siberia is mostly remote and unpopulated with a handful of Russian colonists and maybe some wandering Chinese.
The biggest problem is stopping Russians from going into Siberia in such a scanerio.
The biggest problem is stopping Russians from going into Siberia in such a scanerio.
No, it was returned by treaty. There was no warfare involved, except with Ottomans (common enemy at the time).
Biggest possible Russia probably includes OTL USSR + Poland + Big chunks of what were Austria-Hungary + Finland + Mongolia + Alaska and British Columbia and they could possibly grab Manchuria.
A good POD would be Genghis Khan deciding to turn south upon reaching the Volga moreso than OTL and completely effing up the Muslim world leaving a more prosperous and populate Ukraine to become a the space filling empire OTL Russia turned into.
A good POD would be Genghis Khan deciding to turn south upon reaching the Volga moreso than OTL and completely effing up the Muslim world leaving a more prosperous and populate Ukraine to become a the space filling empire OTL Russia turned into.
Genghis and successors did completely eff up that part of Muslim world.
And would the Southern Rus necessarily do better than the northern Rus OTL? I'm missing why here, I think.
You forgot northern East Prussia aka Kaliningrad Oblast.
Tuva does not count because it was an Imperial Russian protectorate.
I think they would if the Mongolians so annihilated the Muslim world that the Byzantine Empire is able to survive longer and provides greater support before finally succumbing to either a Turkic invasion, internal problems, or maybe a war with some European power. Basically my premise is that the Southern Rus could have an earlier and better head start at becoming the space filling empire that OTL Russia became by default if they aren't pillaged by the Mongolians (and giving them additional friendly butterflies).
You just keep the Inefficient system of Kievan Rus going, not helping at all. The Status Quo lives on.