An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion

[Mathalamus]

well... i hope Venice is smart enough to knopw that as soon as the truce is over, Byzantium will come knocking.

i woudl hope that there would be a great battle with the Adriatic, with all of Venice naval might against the Romans. and then a siege in which the Venetians will desperately keep the city out of Rhomania.

[Ferngolly]

.... And fail miserably, I hope. Despite how "we're sorry" the Venitians are acting, lets not forget. They have it coming. Being conquered, stripped of all wealth, and then made a Roman protectorate (a horribly mistreated one) would be karma for the crap they've pulled.

[Evilprodigy]

1466: On April 23, two great ceremonies take place in Constantinople. The first is the proclamation of Demetrios Drakos Doukas Laskaris Komnenos as Kaisar, the heir to the Roman throne. The second is the marriage of Andreas and Maria, and her coronation.

I am surprised that Maria came back from the dead to re-marry Andreas.

[Herzen's love-child]

Originally Posted by Ferngolly

.... And fail miserably, I hope. Despite how "we're sorry" the Venitians are acting, lets not forget. They have it coming. Being conquered, stripped of all wealth, and then made a Roman protectorate (a horribly mistreated one) would be karma for the crap they've pulled.

No Baccala Mantecato (washed down with a lovely Soave) for you!
povera piccola Venezia...

[Avitus]

I am very interested in what happens if Andreas finds out that Kristina is responsble for the assassination. Killing Maria is bad enough, but one of Andreas' own children was also a victim, and I don't think that he would easily forgive the death of his youngest son (since I assume that the child was healthy until the "complications" occurred).

As for Vlad, he's being a bit generous, but I suppose not unreasonably so, considering that killing an emperor, your son in law, the father of your grandchildren, and the one man even more capable than Vlad himself of making sure that Demetrios becomes emperor (since Vlad could easily die naturally before Demetrios comes of age), is far easier said than done. I never got the feeling that he disliked Andreas, just that Andreas' happiness was a third or fourth priority compared to his blood relatives and ambition. Still, letting Andreas marry Kristina is a bit of a stretch, and if Vlad gets wind of Kristina's involvement in the assassination, even as a rumor, he may well return the favor.

And nice job with the *quack*. I'm sure that has nothing to do with the anti-lemon sentiment here

[Basileus444]

Sidheach: Quack. Yeah, Kristina destroyed whatever (very very very small) chance the Venetian conciliatory gestures had of ever working.

Mathalamus: Venice's fall is going to be much more impressive than its OTL 1797 version (admittedly that's not saying much).

Ferngolly: Venice's gestures really are a textbook case of 'too late'. Before the Black Day, they might have worked. Afterwards though it's not enough.

Evilprodigy: Zombies in Constantinople!!! Aaargh, stupid typo. Fixed.

Herzen's love-child: They had a good run. And a Byzantine Venezia could still be a happening place.

Avitus: The child was healthy until the complications occurred. And that is the main reason Kristina is keeping silent regarding the whole matter. If word got out, it would not be pretty.

And Vlad is being generous. The reason why he actually encouraged Andreas to marry Kristina is that he surmised what Andreas was talking about with Zoe. If Andreas married a not-Kristina, Vlad would have forced Andreas into two unwanted marriages (indirectly the second time), not just one. And if Andreas gets increasingly bitter regarding Vlad, he might turn on Vlad's grandchildren. By mending fences with Andreas (and this is the best way) he removes a potential grievance Andreas may have with Demetrios/Leo.

[eliphas8]

And the family situation in the Komnenos household becomes yet more messed up. Hooray! (although I am kind of happy to see one thing go the way Andreas wanted it to go)

[Mathalamus]

Originally Posted by Basileus444

Mathalamus: Venice's fall is going to be much more impressive than its OTL 1797 version (admittedly that's not saying much).

how did venice fall in 1797 again? something about austria?

The child was healthy until the complications occurred. And that is the main reason Kristina is keeping silent regarding the whole matter. If word got out, it would not be pretty.

just what did kristina do to an innocent child?

also, a third question... what about andrew? would Andreas figure it out sometime, or would it forever remain a secret?

[Xavier]

Let's hope for the sake of everyone that Kristina takes her two secrets to the grave, Andreas has had far more than his fair share of bad luck in his personal life. And did she really have to kill a pregnant Maria! Now I have to like Kristina less.

Also, Am I the only one feeling sorry for Maria?

P.S. TTL better has decent divorce laws a couple of centuries before OTL, so that we can avoid more of these...messes.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Originally Posted by Xavier

Also, Am I the only one feeling sorry for Maria?

Nope, I feel that she deserved better as well.

[Elfwine]

All I can say is, I'm left not liking Kristina as much, and disliking Vlad a lot less - and not for accepting Kristina marrying Andreas.

[Ferngolly]

I'm still hating on Vlad. The guy forced a marriage on his emperor to his daughter and now that he has grandchildren in line for the throne, he really didn't give a damn about his daughter. Yeah, he acted angry and had some justifications for what he did, I don't really buy it though.

Secondly, didn't Vlad say something about how his actions were basically for the good of the Empire, who cares if they were right or wrong? Couldn't this situation with the death of Maria be construed as the exact same thing. Rome now has a closer relationship with Russia, which benefits the empire. This happened because Maria is dead. Rome benefits. If Vlad ever finds out, and decides to go after the new Emperess, this weakens his position.

[cimon]

Originally Posted by Tongera

Such as what? He just annexed Sicily.

Excesses of the South Italian campaign.

[thekingsguard]

Great update, and yay for shipping!

May the joy of Adreas and Kristina only be surpased by the soon to be unleashed fury of Byzantium on the Venetians!

[frozenpredator]

I was warming up to Maria, though at least Andreas is back with Kristina now.


Venice will be in trouble in 4 years time.

[Dyranum]

Wait a minute, so they had not originally intended to annex Venice once the truce ran out and a favourable situation presented itself?

[Arrix85]

Originally Posted by Dyranum

Wait a minute, so they had not originally intended to annex Venice once the truce ran out and a favourable situation presented itself?

Nothing was really set in stone, but the possibility of annexation was taken into consideration (with the agreement with Milanese and Hungarian that a roman conquest of the city would give them also the main claim over Romagna).

Very good update, I agree that Kristina has to maintain the secret or things will be ugly, very ugly.

About the Time of troubles and the succession crisis I'm thinking it will not involve the sons of Andreas, but maybe its grandchildren. the guy is too "active" to run out of heirs.

Poor poor Venice, I'm wondering about the Mamelukes, are they still there? Could we see a small muslim community surviving in the lagoon? the Romans are very tolerant of them.

[Avitus]

I agree that Vlad and Maria have become more likable of late, but to be honest I was always kinda pro Vlad. In politics there really isn't a good and evil, and to call Andreas the good guy is to ignore the strait up comparison with Vlad. Vlad has (as far as we know) been faithful in his personal life, and always fought honorably for the good of the empire, up to and including supporting Andreas in a life threatening situation. Did he benefit from this? Yes, but Andreas willingly set aside his personal life and that of Kristina for personal gain as well, so in a way Vlad was still doing what he was ordered to do by the rightful emperor. After that his actions are in favor of his family over the emperor, but are most likely still the best choice for the empire, considering how unstable Andreas is. And lo and behold, Vlad is even a half decent matchmaker! Now that is going above and beyond for a general

Andreas has good motives, but he is obviously unstable, and has had difficulty putting the empire's good above his own. At his best, he is an able and capable ruler with the good of the people in mind, but that only accounts for about one third of his actions (and half his surviving children). That said, I do love ambitious heroes, and the fact that Andreas is unwilling to let the world try and fail to resolve it's own problems is indicative of a great potential leader IMO, even if he will likely be dissappointed with even his greatest accomplishments. The "Little Megas" remindes me a little of Napoleon Bonaparte actually (messed up personal life, control freak, relentless ambition, underestimated by his enemies, pragmatist to the core, Ect).

[cimon]

Originally Posted by Basileus444

cimon: I agree that horse artillery is a very good idea, and the Romans will adopt it. But remember we're still in the 1400s, and cannon tech is at most a few decades ahead of OTL. So guns are still very heavy, cumbersome, and slow-firing, nothing even remotely approaching a galloper gun in terms of mobility.

Tongera: Sicily by itself isn't too threatening to everyone else. It requires a good amount of Byzantine effort just to keep it down, and Hungary, the Ottomans, and Mamelukes ensure that the bulk of Byzantine strength will always be focused on the east.

Elfwine: Sicily by itself doesn't concern anyone who was already involved. The battle/massacre at Selinus does though since it makes the Byzantines look very big, scary, and nasty.

If all of France outweighs England 6 to one, then Plantaganet France outweighs England somewhere around 4 to one. Still very lopsided since the Plantaganets do have virtually all of northern France (Lotharingia really doesn't control that much French territory).

eliphas8: Exactly.

Tyg: It is in Roman eyes. Andreas wasn't planning an invasion of Iberia or anything like that. He just wanted an easy, popular war in which the navy could take a lot of the slack off the army.

ElSho: Semi-French is how I consider them. They were moving towards being 'English'. They're moving away now.

Sidheach: Both sound very entertaining.

Arrix85: It could, but likely not as much as OTL. I like the idea of a Balkanized America based on a lot more countries getting involved in colonization. Regarding the 'dream of France' it's not a dream of restoring the old Parisian France. The Provencals don't want that. It's more accurately a 'dream of France under Arles'. As for how well that would work, I agree there are considerable difficulties given the sizeable (and growing ITTL) differences between north and south France.

Louyan: I should've been more clear earlier when I talked about this. The Arletian dream is for an Arletian France, not the restoration of the old Parisian France. A Parisian-centered unification movement isn't going to make much headway in Arles because of the big differences between north and south (and the schism). The Arletians would like unification, but on their terms (a Provencal dominated France), something which the north won't go for either.

About 140 years early,I admit,but since the Empire is well ahead of Europe and of course it doesn't need to follow Europe
and I am certain it has good metallurgists,it only needs... large weels and...favourable circumstances.

[Arrix85]

Another tidbit from the update:

NOW it's time for some permian asses to be kicked by the Russians the Timurid brothers are distracted kicking the crap out each other to notice what happens to former vassals of their father so the timing is perfect.