An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion

[thekingsguard]

Brilliant update! May the Black Day of the Roman's be a brief one, and the long night of Venice prove far longer!

A few questions

Also, is there a Union of Kalmar in this TL? If not, is there any chance we might see Denmark make a move on Norway or Sweden? A united Scandinavia was a core dream of the national politics until the 1700s.

Might we see Russia move against Perm?

Will the Orthodox Alliance, if not the Turks, aid the Romans in the Black Day, out of debt for The Battle? Or will Rome even need this aid?

[Tongera]

Excellent update!

Will the Romans decide that fighting the war against the Mamelukes can wait and moves their troops to fight the Venetians, Neapolitans instead? Also, would the Ottomans help in any way at all, even by sending war materials? Also, could a new Crusade be called against the Romans and if there is one, who would join?

I like where this is going.

[5000 Cows]

I'm wondering if Venice is going to be to the Christian Roman Empire of Constantinople what Carthage was to the Pagan Roman Republic. I'm guessing that it culminates climatically like the Third Punic War by this point.

Maybe ITTL you could get Roman historians who try and interpret the conflicts with Venice all the way back to the 4th Crusade as a distinct set of wars. Any good word that's to Venetian that Punic was to Carthage?

[Derekc2]

Well Venice is soon to be fucked.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Bye bye, Venice. Also, Yay for Arles (although it would take more than one war to reunify the two halves of France).

[Mathalamus]

well, bye venice, your dishonorable times will serve to humiliate you in the eyes of modern Italians.

also, if Venice takes Constantinople again, will the Romans actually hold together?

[eliphas8]

Originally Posted by Mathalamus

also, if Venice takes Constantinople again, will the Romans actually hold together?

I doubt it, but I also doubt they could take Constantinople again. Vlachia and Hungary are both friends of Rome and Hungary has a grudge against Venice to.

[Evilprodigy]

Am I the only one who thinks that the Rhomanoi are going to lose this war?
Anastasia and Irene are the only royals in Constantinople with the Emperor in Jerusalem along with Consatinople's defenders, the Varangians and the Athanatoi, leaving the city exposed and weak to the largest navy Venice has ever built with the only defence being the Rhomanoi's navy itself, which is extremely busy in Syria supplying the army in the Holy Land, and some defences in Gallipoli and Gökçeada.
They are at war with Naples and the Pope in Rome, Roman Italy is in open revolt, Serbia and BOTH Bulgarian vassal states are invading Rûm.
They have yet to actually beat the Mamluk army, Anatolia has lost many soldiers to the war with Tieh, Europe has the Italian and Macedonian Tagmata only, twenty thousand men total.
Venice has 44,000 in the navy alone.
The best Rhoman generals (Dracula and Alexios) are in the Mamluk Sultanate, one of them stuck in Alexandria and the other far inland at Jerusalem.
The Pope and Venice combined have a significant amount of wealth that could fund a crapton of soldiers and a long extended campaign, then again so does Rhomania but the Silk Road in the Ottoman Empire and Caucasia is dead, much of Rhomania's previous wealth is going into Venetian coffers.
So yeah, I don't think they are going to win...

[Mathalamus]

Originally Posted by Evilprodigy

Am I the only one who thinks that the Rhomanoi are going to lose this war?
Anastasia and Irene are the only royals in Constantinople with the Emperor in Jerusalem along with Consatinople's defenders, the Varangians and the Athanatoi, leaving the city exposed and weak to the largest navy Venice has ever built with the only defence being the Rhomanoi's navy itself, which is extremely busy in Syria supplying the army in the Holy Land, and some defences in Gallipoli and Gökçeada.
They are at war with Naples and the Pope in Rome, Roman Italy is in open revolt, Serbia and BOTH Bulgarian vassal states are invading Rûm.
They have yet to actually beat the Mamluk army, Anatolia has lost many soldiers to the war with Tieh, Europe has the Italian and Macedonian Tagmata only, twenty thousand men total.
Venice has 44,000 in the navy alone.
The best Rhoman generals (Dracula and Alexios) are in the Mamluk Sultanate, one of them stuck in Alexandria and the other far inland at Jerusalem.
The Pope and Venice combined have a significant amount of wealth that could fund a crapton of soldiers and a long extended campaign, then again so does Rhomania but the Silk Road in the Ottoman Empire and Caucasia is dead, much of Rhomania's previous wealth is going into Venetian coffers.
So yeah, I don't think they are going to win...

They are Romans. that should be all the reason you need for them to win.

[Evilprodigy]

Originally Posted by Mathalamus

They are Romans. that should be all the reason you need for them to win.

Rhomania has lost several times ITTL and Basileus444 keeps saying that Rhomania will have ups and downs, since that makes for a more interesting and realistic story.

[Mathalamus]

Originally Posted by Evilprodigy

Rhomania has lost several times ITTL and Basileus444 keeps saying that Rhomania will have ups and downs, since that makes for a more interesting and realistic story.

Yes, but losing Constantinople again is kind of too extreme of a down.

[brokenman]

Originally Posted by Mathalamus

Yes, but losing Constantinople again is kind of too extreme of a down.

I don't think they will lose Constantinople, they might lose Italy instead.

Oh no, I smell an Andalusian intervention.

[Elfwine]

Also, Constantinople is fortified extremely well. Venice taking it would be some feat.

[frozenpredator]

we all know this is just a setup for the last LotR reference:

various messengers: Rhomaion calls for aid!

Hungary: And Hungary shall answer!
Vlachia: And Vlachia shall answer!
Al-Andalus: And Al Andalus shall answer!
Ottomans: And the Ottoman Empire shall answer!
Ethiopia: And Ethiopia shall Answer!
Arles: And Arles shall answer!
Genoa: And Genoa shall answer!
Avignon: And Avignon shall answer!

A crusade by the forces of the west against the backwards pope in Rome!
A jihad by the progressive forces of Islam

Venezia delenda est!
Let the twin headed eagle fly over Rome once again!

yes i'm bored here at work...

[Arrix85]

Black Day of Rhomania is a very inspired name, may be a brief one. I think Italy may be temporary lost (in terms of decades), but the venetian expedition seems to have a parallel with the Gallipoli campaign (at least in one of the its goals and maybe in the end results). The Bulgars better hope to win or they are done for good and Serbias too, the Romans, will not forget it.

Black Day, on second thought, seems to indicate a relatively brief phase, if not it would be Black Days.

In the end I think the Mamelukes will get out with little losses and maybe some gains as the Romans will recall their forces to defend their europeans holdings (which it will take time anyway)

[MerryPrankster]

I could imagine the Romans losing Italy, especially if their naval forces are recalled defend Constantinople itself.

[Louyan]

Originally Posted by luis3007

The naval war....that theater will decide the results of the war, glorious victory or terrible defeat

It could also be a terrible victory or a glorious defeat!

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Hungary hates Venice, while Vlachia likes the Rhomans. Despite the diplomatic malus created by the impalings, perhaps they could make an alliance of convinience? And of course, there's Russia.

[eliphas8]

I just noticed this but Rome now has all the pieces ready for the Restore the Pentarchy mission.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Jerusalem's merely besieged. And that reminds me, it seems that the 'Chinese State in Australia' thread is digressing from the point.