Isaac's Empire 2.0

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by Elfwine

I have a nagging recollection of reading putting that on the coins wasn't particularly popular, but I can't remember. Confirmation or denial?

Its still...striking.

I think I remember that too. It could be that Isaac booted Christ off the coinage? I'm not entirely sure. Also, martial imagery didn't go down especially well with the Church, and the metropolitan elite of Constantinople.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

I think I remember that too. It could be that Isaac booted Christ off the coinage? I'm not entirely sure. Also, martial imagery didn't go down especially well with the Church, and the metropolitan elite of Constantinople.

That might be it, though wasn't Christ only on the back (tails) side of the coinage anyway?. And its not as if those groups didn't resent Isaac anyway, so this might have just been leaped on as part of the "Anything he does is bad".

Either way, its unique, which probably tells us something.

.

[Sarantapechaina]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

If there is, I've not been able to find it. The only depiction of Isaac that I've seen and can think of to hand is the famous one of him, sword in hand, on the coin.

Unfortunate. I haven't got a copy of Zonaras or anything (ha!) but from what I remember there were miniatures of basically all of the emperors, plus an imaginary Konstantinos after Konstantinos XI who would resurrect the empire. Oh well.

Good stuff, by the way. I never read the original article, so this is all new to me.

[Archangel]

Nice update, BG!

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by Sarantapechaina

Good stuff, by the way. I never read the original article, so this is all new to me.

Thank you- welcome aboard!

Originally Posted by Archangel

Nice update, BG!

Cheers!

Writing the next chapter now, which will feature a segment on the Investiture Controversy. Do readers feel I should have an entirely ATL controversy, given we're now sixteen years from our POD, or a similar-to-OTL one, given the essential elements of the Controversy were seeded before the POD, and the change in Italian politics due to Isaac's reign has been minimal.

Answers on a postcard, please!

[Daylight Savings]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

Writing the next chapter now, which will feature a segment on the Investiture Controversy. Do readers feel I should have an entirely ATL controversy, given we're now sixteen years from our POD, or a similar-to-OTL one, given the essential elements of the Controversy were seeded before the POD, and the change in Italian politics due to Isaac's reign has been minimal.

Answers on a postcard, please!

I think the essentials will be about the same. Given the friction between the Emperor and the Church in Constantinople though there might be some different facets to it.

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by Daylight Savings

I think the essentials will be about the same. Given the friction between the Emperor and the Church in Constantinople though there might be some different facets to it.

Indeed. When I say "similar-to-OTL", what I mean is "similar-to-OTL until the Byzantines get involved". Things will start to diverge quite quickly thereafter.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

Indeed. When I say "similar-to-OTL", what I mean is "similar-to-OTL until the Byzantines get involved". Things will start to diverge quite quickly thereafter.

No reason why it should be different just because the Byzantines getting involved happens later. Hildebrand is still Hildebrand, Henry is still in a weaker position than he's willing to accept, and the other seeds are there.

Death to the papal supremacy theory!

[037771]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

Writing the next chapter now, which will feature a segment on the Investiture Controversy. Do readers feel I should have an entirely ATL controversy, given we're now sixteen years from our POD, or a similar-to-OTL one, given the essential elements of the Controversy were seeded before the POD, and the change in Italian politics due to Isaac's reign has been minimal.

Answers on a postcard, please!

I'd go for the conservative approach: similar-to-OTL crisis. As you say, most of the issues have been seeded before the POD.

[TaylorS]

Bookmarked! great TL!

[Basileus444]

Awesome timeline! Seeing the Komnenids on the throne of Rome is always cool.

I'd say stick to OTL religious issues between east and west. There are more than enough, no need to invent more.

And wasn't the Investiture Controversy between the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor?

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by TaylorS

Bookmarked! great TL!

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Basileus444

Awesome timeline! Seeing the Komnenids on the throne of Rome is always cool.

I'd say stick to OTL religious issues between east and west. There are more than enough, no need to invent more.

And wasn't the Investiture Controversy between the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor?

Thanks for the compliment.

Yes, it was, but if we're being strict here, butterflies would probably already be pretty rampant across Europe at this point. In IE 2.0, I'm having them simply move faster than in the original, but perhaps still rather slowly- the last OTL characters will be gone by about the 1130s, rather than the 1180s in the original.

Anyway, back to the point, having the Controversy work out exactly as it did IOTL up to 1076 could be seen as cutting corners somewhat- but, as others have said, given all the seeds and characters were already in place for it before the POD, I don't think it's too unreasonable.

[Ares96]

A thing I just thought about - perhaps instead of just having Britain and Germany overrunning France, we could see a mose successful Angevin Empire ITTL?

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by Ares96

A thing I just thought about - perhaps instead of just having Britain and Germany overrunning France, we could see a mose successful Angevin Empire ITTL?

The Fall of France will still happen- but in a much more intelligent way. Fear not!

[General_Finley]

I just have to say that I loved the first one and I'm loving this second version even more.

[Ares96]

Originally Posted by General_Finley

I just have to say that I loved the first one and I'm loving this second version even more.

I do thoroughly agree. The map is especially good.

Seriously though, when can we expect an update?

[General_Finley]

Originally Posted by Ares96

I do thoroughly agree. The map is especially good.

Seriously though, when can we expect an update?

The map is amazing. I totally wish I had the skills ans softwar to do anything as good.

[ImmortalImpi]

That map is really, really lovely. I have Inkscape but I'm not at that level yet

[Ares96]

Originally Posted by ImmortalImpi

That map is really, really lovely. I have Inkscape but I'm not at that level yet

Well, to be technical, I'm not using Inkscape, but PDN.

[Sarantapechaina]

Originally Posted by Ares96

Well, to be technical, I'm not using Inkscape, but PDN.

Oh, I love Paint.NET! APPROV'D.