The Adamantine Age: Olaf Tryggvasson Chooses the Aesir

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Will these separate religious verses appear in most future updates?

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

Will these separate religious verses appear in most future updates?

How do you mean? I do intend to include more quotes from the Book of Canonical Sagas if that's what you're asking.

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

How do you mean? I do intend to include more quotes from the Book of Canonical Sagas if that's what you're asking.

Pretty much what I meant, although I did note with interest the Christian criticism of Pagan idolatry in that passage from the Book of Acts and the Asaist expression of their views on this hypocrisy (lets face it, all religions practice idolatry to some degree or another, be it in the form of statues, pictures or books).

I look forward to the next chapter when they set about the Hof building project at Brattahlid, and how they receive the tales of the mysterious western country across the sea discovered by Bjarni Herjolfsson over a decade earlier. If I remember correctly, he settled in Greenland after this incident, so they might just hear it from the horse's mouth.

[Strategos' Risk]

I do hope this AH will continue far, I want to see these renewed Norse pagans meet Muslims and the like.

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Strategos' Risk

I do hope this AH will continue far, I want to see these renewed Norse pagans meet Muslims and the like.

Well, once I have an interest in something, it can continue for quite a while. For example, in the back of my head I have this idea for a long epic series of graphic novels that I have been tinkering with and writing on for more than seven-ish years now. So there is the motivation.

Still, remember that I'm studying my last year for a bachelor's degree in theoretical physics, and that I cannot guarantee frequent updates as the year progresses.

Still, I'm quite sure that I won't give up on the timeline altogether.

[Makemakean]

By the way, something I recognize I should have tried to find out about much earlier, how long would it take the Vikings to travel from Iceland to Greenland, and how long to travel from Greenland to Vinland...?

[Ganesha]

Very nice update, Makemakean. Is there evidence that in OTL Leif Erikson considered Christianity? And given Vinland's existence for far longer ITTL, will Norse Greenland survive as well?

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Viking ships took mere days to sail between Scandinavia and the British Isles. Voyages between Iceland and Scandinavia could take the better part of two months, which could include stopovers in the Orkneys, Shetlands and the Faeroes. It could depend a lot on the winds or personal knowledge of the route

Chapter 4 of the Gisla Saga describes states that "Well they had a long and hard passage, and are out more than a hundred days: they made the north of the island, and coasted it westward along the Stand, and so on westward off the firths. At last they ran their ship into Dyrafirth, at the mouth of the Hawkdale River."

I think this particular bunch, though, were not regular mariners in these waters. Regularly made voyage depended upon the course-correcting skills of the sailors making the cruise.

Voyages between Greenland and Iceland ran into weeks, while a voyage between North America and Iceland could last over a month to achieve.

A Viking Age Knarr could cover 75 miles in a day, and were for a long time the workhorses of trans-Atlantic Norse trade.

[history nerd]

I really hope you have native americans fare better in this scenareo, it would be interesting to have native beliefs mingle with norse beliefs, and have a more disease resistant native population by the time large scale colinization begins in the 1500s

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

Viking ships took mere days to sail between Scandinavia and the British Isles. Voyages between Iceland and Scandinavia could take the better part of two months, which could include stopovers in the Orkneys, Shetlands and the Faeroes. It could depend a lot on the winds or personal knowledge of the route

Chapter 4 of the Gisla Saga describes states that "Well they had a long and hard passage, and are out more than a hundred days: they made the north of the island, and coasted it westward along the Stand, and so on westward off the firths. At last they ran their ship into Dyrafirth, at the mouth of the Hawkdale River."

I think this particular bunch, though, were not regular mariners in these waters. Regularly made voyage depended upon the course-correcting skills of the sailors making the cruise.

Voyages between Greenland and Iceland ran into weeks, while a voyage between North America and Iceland could last over a month to achieve.

A Viking Age Knarr could cover 75 miles in a day, and were for a long time the workhorses of trans-Atlantic Norse trade.

Would you support that as a rule of thumb we put six weeks between Scandinavia and Iceland; three weeks between Iceland and Greenland; and three weeks between Greenland and Vinland (plus minus a few days to account for changing weather conditions)?

Originally Posted by history nerd

I really hope you have native americans fare better in this scenareo, it would be interesting to have native beliefs mingle with norse beliefs, and have a more disease resistant native population by the time large scale colinization begins in the 1500s

Well, I'll think you'll find that colonization of the New World will be much, much, much different from OTL...

[history nerd]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

Well, I'll think you'll find that colonization of the New World will be much, much, much different from OTL...

I should hope... It would be nice to see atleast one native civilization last until atleast the 1800's

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

Would you support that as a rule of thumb we put six weeks between Scandinavia and Iceland; three weeks between Iceland and Greenland; and three weeks between Greenland and Vinland (plus minus a few days to account for changing weather conditions)?

Seems reasonable.

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by history nerd

I should hope... It would be nice to see atleast one native civilization last until atleast the 1800's

Well, were you to try to plough your way through the 16 pages of discussion I had with Byzantine and Lysandros over the course of two months (where all of posted really long and tedious posts, making it a nigh Herculean effort to read through, something I wouldn't want to force you to), you would eventually discover that we intend to have several native civilizations on both the Northern and Southern continents remain powerful and enduring.

[history nerd]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

Well, were you to try to plough your way through the 16 pages of discussion I had with Byzantine and Lysandros over the course of two months (where all of posted really long and tedious posts, making it a nigh Herculean effort to read through, something I wouldn't want to force you to), you would eventually discover that we intend to have several native civilizations on both the Northern and Southern continents remain powerful and enduring.

I had seen that thread, actually thats what got me interested in the first place, actually when I saw it i was dissapointed that I hadn't been there to watch it develop... its kind of awsome I can just read your timeline instead of digging through that!!!

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

The OTL Vinland voyages seemed to have consisted of crews of about thirty men. The population of Greenland had about as much as 2000 settlers at the time, so additional settlers would have to come straight from Iceland itself. Iceland would be the chief emporium of goods from North America. The Icelanders, in addition to wanting to improve upon their own dwellings, would want their grand Hof as well. In a relatively short time, the Icelandic involvement in the settlement of Markland would eclipse that of Greenland.

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

The OTL Vinland voyages seemed to have consisted of crews of about thirty men. The population of Greenland had about as much as 2000 settlers at the time, so additional settlers would have to come straight from Iceland itself. Iceland would be the chief emporium of goods from North America. The Icelanders, in addition to wanting to improve upon their own dwellings, would want their grand Hof as well. In a relatively short time, the Icelandic involvement in the settlement of Markland would eclipse that of Greenland.

2000? You wouldn't happen to have any good sources to recommend for the details of Eric the Red's Greenlandic settlement? I'm kind of looking for some reasonable scholarly source to use in the next chapter...

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

Originally Posted by Makemakean

2000? You wouldn't happen to have any good sources to recommend for the details of Eric the Red's Greenlandic settlement? I'm kind of looking for some reasonable scholarly source to use in the next chapter...

For this one...I got from chapter 14 of Hammer and the Cross by Robert Ferguson, who mentions the figure as being between 2000-4000.
The book Vikings: The North Atalantic Saga by William F. Fitzhugh, claims the population was at least 2000.

A successful Vinland colony might lead to the eventual abandonment of Greenland somewhat earlier than OTL. Not to say that Greenland would be completely abandoned, but subsequent generations would prefer the climate and sheer abundance of land.

[Makemakean]

For this one...I got from chapter 14 of Hammer and the Cross by Robert Ferguson, who mentions the figure as being between 2000-4000.
The book Vikings: The North Atalantic Saga by William F. Fitzhugh, claims the population was at least 2000.

The Hammer and the Cross? Gonna have to check if they have that book over at Waterstones in Bloomsbury at not a too costly price. It could prove more than useful to own that book if I intend to continue this timeline for a longer while.

A successful Vinland colony might lead to the eventual abandonment of Greenland somewhat earlier than OTL. Not to say that Greenland would be completely abandoned, but subsequent generations would prefer the climate and sheer abundance of land.

My idea was that most Greenlanders would continue straight to Markland and Vinland once a prosperous colony has been established, but that Brattahlid and Lysufjord would continue to flourish as small trade towns. Nowhere near as affluent and grand as Reykjavik will become in this timeline, but still reasonable towns, eventually with stone- and brick buildings, more or less surviving off of fishing and from incoming ships going west or east, who wishes to load up their supply of food and so forth. The chieftains of Brattahlid and Lysufjord will also be allowed to send off smaller delegations to the Commonwealth Althing. The Raudhár family (Old Norse. Redhair, the descendants of Eric the Red) will continue to be an important political powerhouse in all of Vinland, Markland and Greenland.

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

So the "Raudhar" clan are like the Kennedy's, then?

Within the next century or so, their Greenlandic estates may be the among the last inhabited places there. I guess they may end up treating it as a source of income more than a permanent residence.

[Makemakean]

Originally Posted by Lysandros Aikiedes

So the "Raudhar" clan are like the Kennedy's, then?

Kind of.

Basically, the Raudhar clan will be instrumental in establishing the Vinlandic Althing and they will interestingly make sure that Vinland does not become a monarchy (the only ones to righteously be crowned kings of Vinland in the eyes of the people would be the Raudhars, and considering that they want to keep it a commonwealth under an althing, nobody is seriously going to push for more monarchical structure).

I was also intending to have the Icelandic Sturlungar clan come over to the Vinlandic Commonwealth and become an important political family there.