Explosion heard around the world... Or Elser succeeds

[abc123]

I'm not so sure that Goering would proclaim himself a lifelong president. After all, even the Enabling Act was for 4 years period, not forever. IMO it is much more probable that he uses some time period like 4, 5, 6 or even 10 years. But not lifelong.

[GamingWeasel]

Thanks for the update Shaby.

[cimon]

Originally Posted by GamingWeasel

Thanks for the update Shaby.

I think that Germans cannot stay out of the international picture in the Far east,I mean actively;Japan is a flagrant violator of International Law and international normality and any action against it is justified....

[Hörnla]

Originally Posted by cimon

I think that Germans cannot stay out of the international picture in the Far east,I mean actively;Japan is a flagrant violator of International Law and international normality and any action against it is justified....

...and might there be a slim hope to get Japanese mandates back...which would create a precedence.

[edvader]

Thanks so much for the update including Washington-Congress and FDR!Keep it up!

[Shaby]

Originally Posted by abc123

I'm not so sure that Goering would proclaim himself a lifelong president. After all, even the Enabling Act was for 4 years period, not forever. IMO it is much more probable that he uses some time period like 4, 5, 6 or even 10 years. But not lifelong.

Well, if few more people agrees, I'll change this. Bit tricky, because in some previous post I may have reffered to referendum for approving his position till the end of his life, but we can disregard it.

Originally Posted by GamingWeasel

Thanks for the update Shaby.

No need for thanks. It is my pleasure. Thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by cimon

I think that Germans cannot stay out of the international picture in the Far east,I mean actively;Japan is a flagrant violator of International Law and international normality and any action against it is justified....

Well, yes they are, but how quickly can a country turn her back on an ally?

Originally Posted by Hörnla

...and might there be a slim hope to get Japanese mandates back...which would create a precedence.

As you say, slim. And IMHO not really worth it.

Originally Posted by edvader

Thanks so much for the update including Washington-Congress and FDR!Keep it up!

as I said, it is my pleasure to write. I have every intention of keeping it up. It is you people who keep me going. Thanks for reading and commenting.

[Nietzsche]

A question- I've been reading this in the Timelines/Scenarios forum, and noticed in the map that the Netherlands appears to be a German protectorate, like Bohemia. Is this correct? I can't seem to find anything in the timeline itself that says it is.

[Shaby]

No, The Netherlands is just as independent as it ever was. I've checked the map and color appears slightly similar but that is just coincidence.

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Shaby

No, The Netherlands is just as independent as it ever was. I've checked the map and color appears slightly similar but that is just coincidence.

Aha. Thanks for clarifying.

[cimon]

Shaby,evaluate the object of that alliance(with the Japanese I mean) defensive or offensive? I think that by sending ships there as a deterrent,like the other western powers,Germany doesn't violate the terms of the alliance
and the obligations that arise as a result.
The last Japanese attack,despite acceptance of the German mediation,is cause enough to repudiate the alliance since they made Germans look like fools.

[Hero of Canton]

Originally Posted by Shaby

Well, if few more people agrees, I'll change this. Bit tricky, because in some previous post I may have reffered to referendum for approving his position till the end of his life, but we can disregard it.as I said, it is my pleasure to write. I have every intention of keeping it up. It is you people who keep me going. Thanks for reading and commenting.

Wonderful thread! It is very well researched and very well written!

I will add my voice to those recommending the "president-for-life" term is too much for Goering to reach for yet. Ten year terms seems the better way to go IMHO.

Hero of Canton

[stubear1012]

Since Goering is trying to have better relations with the West, I recommend that he is elected to a 5 year term. This will go over better in the West. Nothing prevents him from being reelected again and again. Also long as he controls the police and the military backs him, he will be reelected.

As to the previous postings on his term of office, I recommend that you just say that Goering realized the political benefit of 5 year term in terms of working with the West. He ordered the change close to the election.

I am looking forward to reading more of this timeline.

Stubear1012

[abc123]

Originally Posted by stubear1012

Since Goering is trying to have better relations with the West, I recommend that he is elected to a 5 year term. This will go over better in the West. Nothing prevents him from being reelected again and again. Also long as he controls the police and the military backs him, he will be reelected.

As to the previous postings on his term of office, I recommend that you just say that Goering realized the political benefit of 5 year term in terms of working with the West. He ordered the change close to the election.

I am looking forward to reading more of this timeline.

Stubear1012

IMO, even 7 years is good, because you can find examples of 7-year presidential term, IIRC Weimar republic had 7 year term for president, Frencf Fifth Republic ( until recently ) too... So, return to 7 year-term presidency would be seen as return to "normality", a message that IMO would Goering want to send to Germany but to the World too...

[Shaby]

Ok. The original post has been retconned. Thanks everyone on the comments.

[Hero of Canton]

Originally Posted by Shaby

March, Germany

As March came, Goerings position was secured as the results of referendum shown that he enjoyed support of 94,6% of German population. Quite unsurprisingly, German citizens bordering Poland and those from Poland itself voted against Goering. Once the results were publicized, Goering proclaimed himself as President of German Reich in a Sportpalast ceremony, where over 10.000 people gathered and at least twice as many were left standing outside. He thanked people for the confidence and said that he will hold the position for next seven years, after which new elections will be held. Initially he played with the thought of taking position for life and even drafted an announcement on this. Neurath and legal experts from Ministry of justice advised him against it saying that it would harm the image Germany attempted to project abroad. His speech and announcement were welcomed with a thunderous applause and cheers. Next day a grand parade of German armed forces followed, where tanks of 1st Panzer division drove by Brandenburg gate, as exhilarated crowds cheered them on, celebrating an end of war.

Good call IMHO. As others have said better than me, 7-year terms are just long enough without smacking too much of "El Presidente Por La Vida" (as we say here in Nuevo Mexico) style ditatorship. As long as he keeps the military and industrialists happy he can count on many 7-year terms.

Huzzah!

Hero of Canton

[Hörnla]

Originally Posted by Shaby

As you say, slim. And IMHO not really worth it.

Concerning return of Japanese mandates to Germany.

Wouldn't be more than an afterthought next to the advantages of being on the "right" side of a "the world vs ..." - alliance. And if it came to war and German soldiers end up on some of these tiny islands.... (they can forget about Tsingtao, however).

[Hörnla]

A seven year mandate would be in tune with the Weimar constituation which was never officially disbanded after 1933. With Göring having assumed the title of Reichspräsident, these elections (however rigged) would not be out of place.

However, as I stated beforehands, there should soon be discussions what national socialism means in terms of constitutional ideas. In Hitler's world, such thoughts didn't go much further than "everyone does what pleases me". Without this exceptional figure, discussions should go a bit more deeper than that.

So Göring should have to decide: either you have a Führer-figure, and of course it is for life (as went without saying after 1934), or you have the old separation between Kanzler and Präsident, and rules should come into existence defining their roles as well as any kind of succession.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Hörnla

A seven year mandate would be in tune with the Weimar constituation which was never officially disbanded after 1933. With Göring having assumed the title of Reichspräsident, these elections (however rigged) would not be out of place.

However, as I stated beforehands, there should soon be discussions what national socialism means in terms of constitutional ideas. In Hitler's world, such thoughts didn't go much further than "everyone does what pleases me". Without this exceptional figure, discussions should go a bit more deeper than that.

So Göring should have to decide: either you have a Führer-figure, and of course it is for life (as went without saying after 1934), or you have the old separation between Kanzler and Präsident, and rules should come into existence defining their roles as well as any kind of succession.

I agree.
Also, because Hitler ITTL died in 1939 Goering now could claim that it was Hitler's intention/idea to hold a plebiscite about new 7-years mandate in 1940/1941. And there's nobody who can disagree about that, since Hitler is dead. ( OFC we OTL know that something like this is simply ridiculous, but they can't know that ).

About constitutional ideas, since Goering IIRC was Speaker of Reichstag at the moment of Hitler's death, it could be that Goering decides that in future Speaker of Reichstag would be designated sucessor ex officio of the Reichsprasident. And in the same time, Kanzler could be highest bureaucrat duty in country. About elections of President, maybe election by Reichstag and then sent to the people to accept it in a plebiscite?

[Shaby]

United Kingdom

On March 14th British people went to election. Conservatives recovered half of the seats they lost in previous elections, gaining 418 representatives. Most of the difference came from voters for the Labor party, which lost over 30 seats, with 121 representatives elected. The rest of conservative votes came on account of Liberal and National Liberal parties who were marginalized further. People clearly voiced their support to peace and non-confrontation. Chamberlain, who was widely viewed as the wise statesman who understood the European situation properly and has seen the country through the challenge of total war without taking the faithful leap reached the peak of his popularity. After all the votes were counted, fifteen days later, Chamberlain was once more given the mandate to form new government.

Yugoslavia

During March a dozen incidents sparked in Southern Croatia and Herzegovina as small groups of attackers strike on military and police forces. Attacks mostly happened in small towns and villages and attackers disappear by the time more substantial forces arrive to the scene. Preliminary investigation points to the Ustashe movement and immediately police presence throughout Croatia is increased. Police quickly determined that attackers found shelter within local population. The attempt to weed them out resulted in few incidents which got widely publicized and drew anger of local population. However, two weeks after the first incident police appeared to have situation under control, although a few officials were worried by this abrupt cessation of attacks.

March 17th, Berlin, Foreign Ministry

Neurath, who was by now officially confirmed Foreign minister, received Saburo Kurusu, Japanese ambassador. The meeting was organized on Japanese demand and Neurath welcomed the opportunity to warn the Japanese not to abuse German mediation in the same way as they did. He assumed Japanese wanted to ask Germany to provide 'good offices' in coming to terms with Chinese after what appeared to be an ignominious overstretch. After the meeting opened by usual courteous phrases, it turned all the wrong way. Japanese ambassador inquired if Germany would still extend support to Japan in an attempt to defy sanctions threatened by Western Powers. Saburo mentioned the threat of sanctions by US and others and he emphasized the danger posed by communists in China, which forced Japan to commit forces to China, to keep it from being overrun by Communists. Japanese government was worried since Germany has entered the pact with USSR it allowed Soviets to concentrate on the East, without having to worry about Germany.

Appalled by Saburo's 15 minute monologue, Neurath responded that sole interest of Germany is the stability and peace in Europe and to ensure that no new war endangers Germany. If Germany supported Japan still engaged in conflict against Chinese, she could only do that on expense of relations with France, Britain and ultimately America. Germany could never afford to alienate Western powers while bordering with Soviet Union. Saburo insisted that Japanese are also interested in ending hostilities in China and have no interest in making war against entire world. However, if Chinese accepted minimum of Japanese demands, peace would be at hand.

Neurath expressed his doubts Chinese would be willing to accept the outrageous demands of Japanese. He stated this was the last chance Japanese will have to negotiate the peace and that they should seize it. The failure to do so might have grave consequences, not only in terms of Sino-Japanese relations, but Germany will be forced to reconsider her own relations with Japan in view of their intransigence. Neurath added he can not rule out the complete change of German policy in regards to Japan and China. Heated discussion ensued, as Saburo accused Germany of leading Japan on and abandoning her at the moment of dire national emergency. Neurath retorted angrily mentioning Nanking and Japanese troops attacking Germans in China. Japanese ambassador embarked on another monologue, obviously prepared beforehand. He poured reasons why Chinese were not able to govern themselves, how they were corrupted, disunited, communist and uncivilized. Japanese, Saburo said, only wanted to shape them into image of Japan which has proven successful and lead them just as Germany would lead Central Europe.

Losing all patience, Neurath asked ambassador if this policy includes exterminating Chinese in order to save them. Chinese and Japanese will come to peace and it will be just peace. Germany had no intention of entering the war for the sake of an ally embarked on a lost cause and as long as there were alternatives. Saburo said Japan will be firm obstacle to communist expansion in Asia. Neurath then asked Saburo how Japan expected to achieve this while entangled in China. Saburo, caught off guard by the question, could only offer an answer 'After we solve China incident.' Neurath politely stated the 'incident' already was in its fourth year and ruefully suggested they come up with more fitting description for it. He also mentioned that most military experts in Germany regarded the China situation quite beyond the hope of quick resolution or any sort of resolution at all. Eventually Neurath flat out rejected to commit Germany to support Japan in any way, but to cesation of all hostilities, pending peace terms negotiation. Furthermore, Japanese need to respond to this in a week. Should Japan choose any other course of action, Germany would no longer be her ally. Saburo indignantly declared that Japan will remember German betrayal and that Germans will still have time to grieve over the loss of the ally. German foreign minister just reminded Japanese ambassador that this was the last time Japan played Germany for fool and that Germany will not take this abuse. He added that there are certain bills that were unsolved from 25 years ago and that Germany might some day attempt to solve them.

While his outside appearance carried over pride and arrogance, Japanese ambassador was overcome with doubts within the confines of his mind. The instructions that came from Japan where clearly conflicting and the dichotomy between civilian government and military leadership was showing. He tried to warn his boss that this approach might backfire, but without success. His briefing on situation in Germany he sent towards the end of the year hinted of possible turn around in policy, but it failed to convince generals in Japan of the need to revise policy in China. His instructions in case Germans refused to support Japan lead to the virtual severing of relations between two countries. Now his country has lost the her most potent ally and he needed to report this to Tokyo as fast as it could be written and delivered. Maybe those hotheads in the military will sober up with this. There was some slim hope of this, though Saburo would not hold his breath.

Neurath was dumbfounded by the Japanese ambassador. Saburo was considered member of a moderate faction in Japan and his attitude was unexpected. When he met with Goering that afternoon, he recounted the entire meeting. Goering went wild and immediately sent orders to Brauchitsch to prepare a shipment of tanks and other weapons to be sent to China and to Milch to equip squadron of He-100, He-111 and Hs-123 each and prepare to send them to China. He further instructed Neurath to arrange with the Soviets transfer of those weapons to Chinese and to contact US ambassador and see if Germans could join the obviously imminent blockade. Kriegsmarine was order to prepare to dispatch one panzershiffe to join Anglo-French formation, preparing in Spithead, within 2 hours of being ordered.

Goering was driven to those steps by the report he received from Todt. His ministry has prepared full study of resources Germany could get from China, as well as the cooperation German companies established within China. Canaris has also established close contact with Chinese intelligence service and Goering judged that in the medium term, cooperation with China will bring enormous benefits. He also decided to snatch a chance to improve relation with United States which had, what appeared by all accounts, an emotional response to Chinese pleads for help. Goering was far too clever and sensed Americans were attempting to play the same game as Germany in China. Whatever the case may be, the chance of improving relations with the West radically was too good to miss.

The news that came in the morning of 18th resulted in Goering calling British and American ambassador personally. To ambassador Kirk Goering declared German intent to join sanctions on Japan. Goering informed British ambassador Kriegsmarine is ready to take part in the Anglo-French naval task force being prepared at the moment. Stunned, both ambassadors requested time to consult with their respective governments. Chamberlain received the news within 30 minutes and proceeded to consult Daladier and Stanley. Two hours later, after initial shock wore off, French Prime minister accepted German involvement. He said many differences with Germany still remain, but offer to help in securing peace is a step in the right direction. British ambassador returned in the afternoon that day with the news that His Majesty's government welcomes German participation in the task force. American answer took a little longer, but ambassador Kirk was able to deliver American enthusiastic acceptance in the early evening. It appeared world was reacting to German new policy with caution, many no doubt wondering if it was some elaborate trap. At dawn, the following day, KMS Admiral Graf Spee, fresh from overhaul of the engines, set sail from Wilhelmshaven for Southampton and joined the British task force there.


KMS Admiral Graf Spee arrives to Spithead to join international fleet


China

The news causing this frantic activity was the renewal of Japanese offensive in China on the morning of March 18th. Despite being better prepared than a fortnight earlier, Chinese were again pushed back and within two days of fierce fighting, their lines fractured. Combination of Japanese tanks and air force broke the line courageous Chinese soldiers attempted to hold and started advancing towards their final objective - linking up with Japanese forces around Wuhan, still some 300 kilometers away. Losses this time were less one sided and not that many Chinese were taken prisoner, but Chinese armies still suffered 10.000 casualties, while inflicting 6.000 on Japanese. Japanese lost 12 tanks and 6 airplanes, shooting down 10 Chinese fighters and two He-111 Chinese attempted to use in support of their troops. Meanwhile, Chinese government publishes the footage of Japanese raid on city of Nanyang, causing an additional uproar by international community, especially in USA.

That morning a formidable armada, including two British battleships of Nelson class, two French Dunkerque class, British aircraft carrier Ark Royal, three British and three French cruisers, four British light cruisers, Dutch De Ruyter light cruiser and finally German Panzerschiffe Admiral Graf Spee, weighed anchors and set sail to Far East. The fleet was escorted by flotilla of British destroyers and assorted support vessels.

Japan

As Japanese offensive continued, Ambassador Grew asked for an appointment with Japanese foreign minister. He delivered a message from American President to the government of Japan, announcing that United States demands Japan to cease all military activity in China, suspend the military aggression on the country and within three days accept to commence negotiation with Chinese at Manila. The negotiation would start on April 15th and aim to end Second Sino-Japanese war. Should Japanese decline to negotiate, United States would impose sanctions on Empire of Japan, starting with total ban on export of iron ore, scrap and steel to Japan. Should Japanese persist in their defiance, sanctions will be imposed on other industrial goods and raw materials and finally Japanese assets in United States will be frozen. The sanction will be maintained until Japan shows goodwill and negotiations produce credible results. Once they do sanctions will be relaxed, but, remarked ambassador, Japan will no longer be allowed to embark on aggressive actions unchecked. On the same day, ambassadors from UK, France and The Netherlands visited Foreign ministry, delivering much the same message.

Japanese foreign minister sat in his chair after his visitors left, wondering how is he going to report all this to the Prime minister. Then, his aide came to his office, carrying another report. After reading it, Nomura paled - it seemed Japan was virtually being abandoned by all. Having no idea what to do now, he decided to discuss this first with Yonai, Minister of the Navy. Perhaps Navy could finally bring some sense and overturn the domination of the Army which lead Japan towards the abyss. He knew Japan could never win against the coalition of all western powers that seemed to be forming.

Moscow

In the meantime, Stalin and Molotov carefully observed events as they were unraveled over previous month. Soviet Union had no further interest in calming situation down in China. They were perfectly happy to have Japanese and Nationalists fight to exhaustion after which the time will come for Mao and his forces to assert communist rule over China. It seemed Germans wanted to pick up where Soviets have left in China, so Nationalist will not be short of support. Stalin judged they could never achieve long term stability and overcome the fragmentation and corruption within their midst, so he was willing to allow Germans to sink some equipment and resources in that sinkhole. After all, if they started being successful, the life line could always be cut.

What upset Soviet was apparent attempt by Germans to improve their relations with Western powers. From this loomed Soviet nightmare - grand coalition of Capitalist Powers that would strangle Workers Paradise. Stalin decided to use the moment when virtually everyone's attention was focused on Far East to continue strengthening of the western borders. Molotov and Stalin decided to issue an ultimatum to Romania on the first day of April. They would leave them three weeks to comply, after which Semyon Budyonny will lead the Southern front into attack.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Shaby

The news that came in the morning of 18th resulted in Goering calling British and American ambassador personally and declared German intent to join sanctions on Japan and to offer Kriegsmarine to take part in the Anglo-French naval task force being prepared. Stunned, both ambassadors requested time to consult with their respective governments. British ambassador replied within few hours with news that His Majesty's government welcomed German participation in the task force. American answer took a little longer, but ambassador Kirk was able to deliver American enthusiastic acceptance later in the day. As a result KMS Admiral Graf Spee, fresh from overhaul of the engines, was immediately ordered to set sail for Southampton and join British task force there.

Why did the Germans ask the British and the *Americans* if they could join the Anglo-French task force, wouldn't they ask the British and the *French*?

And what is the French opinion on the German help (or should it be "help")?